Gotthardbahn (BETA)

[oismachihi]

I'd like to contribute another scenario - one of which I think, at least some in the audience will like. That goal should be basicly to connect Zug with Chiasso (i.e. construct the Gotthard railway) in 10 years startig from 1872 (the game starts already 1869, so there is some sort of preparation phase).

Although the Scenario is still in an early stage with almost no events (an lots of money for testing purposes), I would be glad to receive some comments on the map. Especially I'am wondering, if the experts in this forum suggest some adapation of the pulling power.

Update: New Version with more events.

[RayofSunshine]

To get some comments on this scenario. Oismachihi,
Germany is really a terrain of a lot of mountains. Not my preference, but do try and attempt to play them.

As a start, looking over the map cities, I thought that a challenger would be that to make a connection, or 2. As I played it, you were a step ahead of me with the connection of Zug to Chiasso, although I initiated my first station at Zurich. My reasoning was to that of a Brewery with access to grain fields.

But it was after a time of play, and the indicator in your end of year ledger, that a notation was made for that of "fruit". The best supply of "fruit" was in the Southern most map. So I, being able to "not" having to need to connect track, I set up a station near Chiasso, installing a Distillery, and thereby had a commodity of which could be part of the challenges/goal. Not yet running any tally.

As to a time duration of the scenario, it is a long way between Zug and Chaisso, with a lot of mountains. And tunnels appear to be a "high" revenue killer, and would try to traverse the distance without them, which will take time, no matter if tunnels were used, or not used.

I did have to use 6 bonds, for the purchase of industry and farms, to have some incoming revenue, to compensate the revenue needed to connect "Z" with "C".

I like you not needing to connect track, as it gives a player more independence. It also lets a play "place" a depot to his liking in the farm supplies.

Although there is a goodly amount of revenue to help in the creating of track routing, I also like the low amount of the 6% interest on bonds, rather than that of the normal 10 to 13%, which most scenarios dictate.

In 1867-9, there probably was not very large 'scattered" populations. Playing does take some "0" operating trains when many of the cities are only 1 to 3 homes. And it take a while, even with some supplies being delevered to help increase those population for houses.

Anxious to see what other players will have as comments.

[RayofSunshine]

Well Oismachihi,
While you are sitting around, LOL here is an idea which OilCan uses. Bonuses for attained track mileage.

It is a long way between Zug and Chiasso, which requires revenue. So, a player has to lay track to other cities and supply farms, as well as invest in Industry, for that extra revenue. Hence a long time duration as well, to "keep them cars a rolling".

Or as some creators have done, a bonus for an acquired number of cities connected.

And there is always the challenge for PNW, Personal Net Worth, and CNW ? Company Net Worth or Volume.

Still trying to find the best route between Zug and Chiasso.

[Cash on Wheels]

I don't play the first beta of any map. but looking for issues in your map I did not find much. the reigon seeding is perfect( I did not look at the towns, the town seeds) towns are spaced. In the area of the town that starts with Siegel the river and towns south of it have not been smoothed out.

You just need a few more events. I would not worry about pulling power until more people chip in.

[oismachihi]

I have to admit that this scenario is quite similar to the well-known Brenner campaign. My Intention was to provide a similar scenario wirh a more detailed map.

I think that this Scenario ist quite challenging since the Explosion in mountain track building cost means pressure to built the Gotthard railway very quickly. On the other hand, in the mountains there ist no much chance to gain revenue (only small poor cities). I think that this makes the Scenario quite hard...

Hint: You should built a tunnel between Göschenen and Airolo (like in reality).

[Sugus]

Gave this beta a try just now. Started by connecting Como, Chiasso and Varese, which resulted in some earnings in the first years. Tried to do the same in the north around Zürich, but with no real success. The trains run mostly empty and beginning in 1874 with an addtitonal depression, the only color a saw was red.

From my point of view there should be some more resources, because one has to build a basic income in the north or the south (or both), before one can start to cross the alpes. Also, the repeated message concerning "Exploding Costs for Mountains Railways" is too hard, because each will increase the
cost by 20%.

[RayofSunshine]

I was surprised that I actually managed to connect Zug with Chiasso in 14 years. That might be due to having initiated 3 different "avenues" to make the connection. However, the tracks laid provided revenue, as I did purchase Brewery and Grain Farms in the North around Zurich, and a couple of Sawmills and Paper Plants in the Eastern portion. In making the connection, I accidently constructed a tunnel, but then did purpously did construct one along that same route of track in order to progress with the Zug/Chiasso connection.

I did not know about an "actual" tunnel in reality, Goschene to Airolo, and don't know at this time as to whether it would be part of the track routing via Lagano on the Eastern portion of the map. However, I came close, as routing via Lagano to Faido, I swung more North, prior connecting with Airolo, laying track to Dissentis-Masttis. That would, change the routing of which I used, but would change the routing to comply with the tunnel as a requirement.

[low_grade]

Gold on Expert in March 1884. Though... I did modify the "Tunnel Cost" event to fire only once, as I think was intended. As written the event produces a cumulative +200% Tunnel Building Cost and +250% Graded track cost by 1882. I chose the DX Goods over -5% overall track cost, and used it until the end, not even replacing any with Vittorios. Stirlings were also employed in the flats in northern Switzerland. Started with a Textile Mill on one of two neighboring Sheep Ranches at $0 just southeast of Wadenswil, then another in the hills south or Airolo, upgrading both ASAP, $972k profit 2nd year, $470k first year, then began rail out of Zurich in 1871 to Wil SG and a spur to the south to catch Livestock next to the river so send to the Meat Packer in Wil SG for $125k/load initially. Made it to Airolo by 1874, Chiasso by 1877, Olten in 1978 for the last connection goal. Built a T&D in Stresa in 1875, and anther on 1880, that was the extent of my industry, plus 4 Sheep Ranches. Produce sent directly to Goschenen, and then dispersed into northern Switzerland naturally. Perhaps the goal should count LTD Produce to Terr - LTD Produce from Terr?

I think letting the map develop on its own for a couple years while enjoying good short-term profits from textiles before starting rail was a solid strategy. Relying on pax on these early maps means I'm reluctant to start two separate networks, and perhaps this could be enforced with "must build connected track."

I didn't build any tunnels, here's my route through Gotthard Pass:

The terrain was far from polished, but not too bad. Paths as intended along rivers should be cleaned up, and mountain routes smoothed a bit where they're most jagged. I didn't use much of the map, connecting to only about half of the cities, not sure what to do about that. Perhaps make this a 25 year scenario with goals for hauling Alcohol to Domodossola and Chiavenna, and Goods to Illantz and Brienz?

Ah, and pulling power of the DX Goods is fine. But perhaps it shouldn't be a choice between that and track cost. Just give the player access to the DX Goods and leave track cost alone. Because without the DX Goods, then yes pulling power would be a major issue. Well, or I might be tempted to use a Fairlie for the first time...

Just did a test with my Autosave. Adding a new loco from Goschenen to Ariolo (the pass incorporates 5's and 6's,) first the Crampton took until October to get even to Andersmatt, while the Stirling took until November to get as far, while the Fairlie arrives in Ariolo at the start of Aug, with the DX Goods making the trip by the start of July. So... maybe it's possible to use the Fairlie for the pass until you get the Duke, though you'd then want to be a lot more careful laying track than I was in southern Switzerland, where I employed all DX Goods given regular stretches of 3's which would slow a Stirling right down... though Chiaso to Stresa is probably flat enough for a Stirling to do well if you're down there before 1880. I'd still take the DX Goods over 5% off track cost though, as otherwise most locos are going to cost $140k instead of $45k. If you really want it to be a decision, the choice should probably be DX Goods or +10% pulling power and -10% track costs.

[oismachihi]

After a couple of months, I have to admit that this scenario is quite challenging or even frustrating. The regular increase cost of track building in the montains is intended this way to set the player under pressure to complete the montain railway (other the player could generate income in the north and south and then quickly complete the Gotthard line).

Perhaps one could reducde the increase to 15% and start the game a Little bit earlier such that the player has more time to generate Revenue. What does the audience think?

[low_grade]

You realize the event increases tunnel building by 20% and graded track building by 25%? Every year for 10 years. I'd need a better tester than I am to say how much more that might cost given a decent pace of expansion. I feel like the heavily graded track may have cost $5M-$8M to lay, where flat track would have been $2M-$3M, so the graded part is $3M-$5M, and say on average +150%, so $7.5M to $12.5M for the graded component, or an extra $4.5M-$7.5M due to the exploding costs event. I think in my play this would have sunk me, as I was quite a bit overextended with bonds making the final few connections. And I needed to get down there when I did to start making those very profitable hauls, any delay likely would have seen my books turn red.

Here's a suggestion, maybe. Start with access to northern Switzerland only, opening up southern Switzerland when company has connected 5 cities, and force connected track. Keep your tunnel event as is, but for every city in southern Switzerland the company connects, reduce costs by 10%. I think this will still produce the impetus to rush a line over the mountains, while providing a path to mitigating the excessive costs. "As connections are made in the south, access to rail building materials improves, reducing costs" or something like that.

[RulerofRails]

I tried the first version of this, and it was obvious it was still a work in progress. I missed the improved version. Anyway, I just finished playing it and it's a lot of fun.

Am in the mood for no industry, so that's what I did. I experimented a little at the start, ended up running with a Lenzburg-Baden-Schlieren-Zurich line. It still wasn't a roaring start, but it got me off the ground and an improving economy let me get the bonds I needed to grow. Had a warehouse in Olten so went there pretty quickly. The year that the first graded track/tunnel increase came through I maxed out bonds in Boom for 6.3M to spend on the line. Had reached Brunnen at that point. Got as far as Locarno where there was a Textile Mill. This was an important revenue stream, as I could haul Wool to it. There was also a Meat Packer there, but fed by only 1 ranch. So this was enough income potential that growth didn't stall even when the economy returned to normal. So, reached Chiasso in 1874. I decided to only collect Produce (Fruit) from the single station in Varesse and ship it to Zurich which had a Distillery. Still, natural re-hauling (auto consists on trains to/from Zurich) probably gave an easy 2x multiplier.

Here's an idea, because track is restricted due to price there could be not much to do except watch your Fruit trains, what about the condition (Expert) that your company be debt free to get Gold? If you can't do it by the end of 20 years, you get it anyway. I started doing this and had $3.5M left (about a year's profit) to repay when I got the medal.

I will mention firstly that I am unsure if all seeds are created equal. There is a specific route for you to run. This is like real life which is good. The thing is that with random seeding, in "regular" games if one area is a bit poorer in a given play we can go to where the resources are. Here we are locked into one path. As such, I would maybe consider seeding a couple resources via event when the player connects to the various cities, esp. along the Ticino river (?). Could be a Coal Mine in Bellizona, a Logging Camp in Biasca, a Dairy Farm in Faido, and a Sheep Farm in Airolo. Also, make sure to hard-code the Textile Mill in Locarno but put it up on the hill a bit (separated by a full cell from the river). This is an idea that was used in Denver and Western map and I think it can help with this one to make seeding less important.

Yes, the Graded track cost increases by 25% per year when the event only says 20%. This means that it will peak at 3.5x normal 100+(10*25)=350. It definitely makes you pay attention. Because I knew it was coming, I strategized around it. I think it's a good device to keep the player from laying track everywhere so he ends up with a more realistic network along the specific route. I like this much better than restricted track allowances. What I would say is that this feature should be "advertised" in the briefing and description: that the player will be required to recreate accurately the original route, costs will start to rise after the first couple of years to prevent wandering. If the player is expecting this device, IMO it works nicely for what you intended (at least with the seed I had). I would reduce it for the levels below Expert though. For example, Hard: 20%, Easy/Medium: 15%. One good side effect is that you try to keep your grades lower even in the flatter portions of the map.

Some screenshots. I don't think I followed the right path through the mountains. There's a dip with a big bump in the middle and some jaggedness that needs fixing to make it a good path. It can have some kinks in it to make it interesting. Currently the worst part I think is the descent to Airolo. Also if you've got the time, there's a couple places the lakes in the south could do with some love.

[low_grade]

Phantom reply from RoR....

And, this is awesome!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gotthard_Tunnel

At opening in 1881, at 15.003km, it was the longest tunnel in the world. People griped about 11% cost overruns (lowball bid, anybody?) Well, when 11% is $9.1B today's money, um, yeah, I do more than gripe!! This tunnel was built for $91.9 billion dollars in today's US dollar.

Here's a whole new scenario! The base tunnels are opening! since June 2016, 35 mile tunnel completely avoiding the mountains, suitable for HSR and heavy freight, and the new longest tunnel in the world, but for less than $10B:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gotthard_Base_Tunnel

[low_grade]

Ahh, there he is. You saw a totally different line over the pass. And still didn't build a tunnel.

And, especially after reading about the new base tunnel, Gotthard especially stands in the way, historically, of traffic going straight down from Rotterdam to Genoa. It's the reason Switzerland exists, to control this pass, as I read it. Maybe make transit warehouses significant. Italy paid for over half the cost of the tunnel, and Germany paid as much as Switzerland.

[RulerofRails]

I deleted a post because I went to play the map, and made a post before realizing I didn't have the new version. Wasn't relevant, I was trying to figure out what starting cash should be. Which is obviously correct in the new version.

Anyway, yeah, the base tunnel is something else. Over 10,000 people travel through it each day! This is the sort of tunnel that could be compared to what we have in RT3. But it does show that the area of this map is quite small. One major limitation with dropping pulling power to force realistic grades is bridge ramps (3-4%). The only option is to carefully sculpt the terrain to get around them, but it's quite difficult to get right when your rails should be following the river in the first place. Some people have done it, but I can't imagine the patience needed.

[oismachihi]

A final version - at least to my opionen

[Sugus]

The 15% increase of costs for tunnels and tracks should happen once (in 1873) only and NOT EVERY YEAR from 1873 till 1883!

[oismachihi]

I know that it is very challenging this way. But it's not impossible. You just need to built tunnels and tracks in the montains as soon as possible regardless whether they are connected to the network or not.

[Sugus]

... just like in real life!