China Ultimate map v 1.0

[thietavu]

This is a *very* big and detailed map with more than 170 towns and so many trees etc that it's a lumberjack's dream... And a nightmare for an underpowered computer, I guess. All the towns and cities have realistic businesses and also the resources are in their more or less correct places. So, finding all the information took a long time...

There is no time limit and although there is a certain "victory goal", connecting 11 far-away places, including 3 connections to Trans-Siberian Railroad, the main idea here is just to build... and build... and to see what kind of railroad network comes out. In my several tests, this scenario easily produced more than 350 engines and actually tests the limits of my 3.7 GHz modern PC. So you have been warned. :)

It would be wrong to call this "ready", but at least the single player game is playable now. I haven't been able to try multiplayer game with this. There are two apparent problems with this map. It doesn't look quite as good as I hope it would; my skills with the editor aren't yet too great. Then the problem I simply haven't understood how to solve: money. The beginning of this scenario can be a little challenging, but once you get things rolling (literally), money will not be a problem. Quite on the contrary. This map will make you a millionaire a bit too easily. The nice thing about that is that one can concentrate on other things, but it's obvious that I haven't found some correct balance.

Hints and improvement ideas are welcome - I hope some of you will enjoy connecting Far East!

Requirements: I only have tested this with 1.06 unofficial update. It may or may not work on older versions. I'd recommend at least 2 GB RAM and a 2.4 GHz+ CPU. Looks ugly on Windows 7 and Vista, but works.

[Hawk]

Should I assume this is a beta map and not ready for the archives here, or can it be added to the archives as is?

[thietavu]

Should I assume this is a beta map and not ready for the archives here, or can it be added to the archives as is?

Well, I think it is completely playable as it is now. If people find enough reason and ways to improve it, I may do changes, but right now I think I'll concentrate on making last small adjustments to my other giant, the Scandinavian map. So, for my part, this can be published now.

[Hawk]

It's now in the archives here.

http://hawkdawg.com/rrt/rrt3/map_arch/rt3_asia.htm

I deleted it from your first post, plus I added the number of downloads to the download page in the archive, which was 7.

[andy-rails]

i tried it...there is a little error on the Hanoi condition (well..there is no condition at all in the edit scenario) and perhaps it lacks of events and time limit but...this is a GREAT map and scenario....very very well done...congratulations for the details and realism!

Andy (andybis)

[thietavu]

i tried it...there is a little error on the Hanoi condition (well..there is no condition at all in the edit scenario) and perhaps it lacks of events and time limit but...this is a GREAT map and scenario....very very well done...congratulations for the details and realism!

Andy (andybis)

Thank you for positive words! To me, it is kind of an "extended sandbox". The original Eastern China map was very good. It just made me think: "So, what about Mongolia? What about Tibet? What about Sichuan - and all those countless unique places..." So, I set up a major investigation around China, using Google, Wikipedia, Microsoft Encarta, books, my friends in there, everything... The goal was to create something realistic, yet surprising. For example, one can find some surprising things on Tibet's remote valleys.

I have tested this map in very many ways. The towns and cities do react very positively to the traffic created to/thru them. Sometimes it's a good strategy to simply expand like a spider, creating a web of railroads connecting everything. But then again, it might be a better strategy to choose some essential mainlines and to make them as good as is possible. With heavy traffic.

Some distant, maybe uninteresting areas are capable of making big surprises when you tap their potential.

Many of the trains on this map are either long-distance or heavy mountain freight engines. This sets some a little surprising challenged to us. For some reason, some engines tend to be *very* short-lived in this scenario. And very unreliable. On the other hand, some others perform very well in China's mountainous, heavy dragging conditions.

Choosing the right engines for the right eras and tasks is one of the nice challenges of this map.

The role of express trains in extremely interesting in early China! If you start the game in 1900 or 1910, you are basically stuck with just one "usable" (but expensive) steam engine: The Consolidation. And yes, it is good in what it does. It can be replaced with some other, mostly quite strange European/American passenger models.

Trying to create separate express and freight trains too early mostly causes trouble, at least initially.

This map gives you a chance to use most locomotives of the era. So - why couldn't have the Chinese ordered some "Big Boys"? Just do what you can, the best you can.

One interesting challenge later in the game is to create "low speed" tracks, "normal speed" tracks (normal express) and then the high speed track. For express trains running 200..400 km/h.

China is a perfect playfield for tests like these... and more! :)

Have fun!

[belbincolne]

Started playing this on Normal and using electric trains. Whilst my computer is pretty big and so far I've not hit any slow down problems and am solely railroading I suspect I'll never get to the end because the map is just too big and really everything is too easy so all I'm doing is filling in time and, after a while, this gets rather boring.

The map is magnificent but - for me - I'd rather see it in smaller sections with definite objectives in a reasonable (sort of 25 year area) time with an Almanac and some events thrown in. Just to make it more interesting I've set myself extra Personal Wealth objectives. Even this slows progress down because it stops me issuing stock and, as enough money comes in from railroading, there's no point in prolonging the game by building industry. I can see that at some (several) point all I'll be able to do is let the game run whilst $30m builds up for entry to other countries which is no fun.

Sorry if this seems a bit negative but the map is really good - far better than you've given youreslf credit for.

[thietavu]

Yes. I suppose many people will find my maps boring since they are almost all about "sandbox style" playing. The challenges are kind of in one's head, not in time or money. For example, how to create a bullet train line between Beijing and Shanghai without disturbing the slower traffic between the cities? Or how to find best possible routes over or through the mountains. Then again, some areas may use steam power while others use diesel and electric...

These maps reflect my interest in trains - not in economy. So, I wanted to create something relaxing and good enough looking with lots to do, but as little emphasis on economy or artificial time limits as possible. Making money is easy in this "China". But making good, sensible track routes isn't so easy at all. Just try to figure out how to make a sensible route from Guangzhou to Bangladesh...

But this is version 1.0. I might add some intelligence and more challenge to this if many enough people wish so. :)

Thanks for honest feedback!

[belbincolne]

Well played on for several hours. With cash rolling in it can take 15 mins plus to get through a year. Then from 1930 to 35 I had to just sit back and wait for $40m ($30 for entry and $10 for lines over mountains). Tried for Dhaka but couldn't get anywhere from where my lines in China were so changed to the north (Manchuria?) and easily got to Ulan and the 4 transit links. In 1938 I'd only Seoul and Dhaka left to connect but reckon this will cost me $80m in entry fees plus some $20m for lines so with some $15m in hand waited - but depression stayed for 4 years and despite now having moved back to Boom in 1947 I'm $6m in the red with no signs of improvement.

I'll let it run for another few years but if it stays the same I'll be too bored doing nothing. My salary has dropped to $6,000 On the good side I've 100 trains and no problems in computer speed.

I've had problems connecting to many of the towns and even when I've got there I've frequently had problems laying big stations as the terrain is too hilly so have had to settle for medium (Lhasa for example). In one town I even laid 3 small stations (and the train between was - initially anyway - very profitable.

[thietavu]

Well played on for several hours. With cash rolling in it can take 15 mins plus to get through a year. Then from 1930 to 35 I had to just sit back and wait for $40m ($30 for entry and $10 for lines over mountains). Tried for Dhaka but couldn't get anywhere from where my lines in China were so changed to the north (Manchuria?) and easily got to Ulan and the 4 transit links. In 1938 I'd only Seoul and Dhaka left to connect but reckon this will cost me $80m in entry fees plus some $20m for lines so with some $15m in hand waited - but depression stayed for 4 years and despite now having moved back to Boom in 1947 I'm $6m in the red with no signs of improvement.

I'll let it run for another few years but if it stays the same I'll be too bored doing nothing. My salary has dropped to $6,000 On the good side I've 100 trains and no problems in computer speed.

I've had problems connecting to many of the towns and even when I've got there I've frequently had problems laying big stations as the terrain is too hilly so have had to settle for medium (Lhasa for example). In one town I even laid 3 small stations (and the train between was - initially anyway - very profitable.

I have played that map for many, many times now, connecting every city on the map in very different ways. The map can be - or appear to be - very easy when things go right. Then money pours in from every direction. The problems start if one expands even slightly too fast. Then relying on profitability and resulting bonds can lead to a disaster quite easily. One thing I myself like about this (and my other, Scandinavian) map is that there is no clear "success" strategy - or rather: there are countless ways to connect China with railways. But they all need some sort of a plan. Sometimes it works, sometimes not, but I find surprises every time I play.

I usually start in 1900, just to have more time to enjoy (?) the slow, relatively expensive Consolidations and other underpowered locos a little bit longer. In this map, it is very important to choose the right towns to connect first, especially in the very early years. For example, otherwise easy and lucrative Shanghai-Hangzhou line can sometimes start well but dry up fast, causing financial problems. I also try to avoid bridges and especially tunnels in the first 10 years. As a rule of thumb, it generally takes about 1 million $ to properly create a totally new connection between 2 cities (I only use "large" stations when possible) locos included.

Electric is very useful especially in the "mainline" between Beijing and Shanghai, if one chooses to build one, and in the extremely profitable industrial North-West area, south from Harbin. Then again, the inland areas are not very suitable for early electrics (even less so for early diesels). Seeing which steam types perform well in those hilly, mountainous, huge areas is interesting. Some locos simply can't take it and totally break in less than 5 years.

Different locos perform well in different areas. Since this map generates absolutely huge amounts of resources to haul, it's not easy to have too many freight trains on most tracks. My current record is over 400 trains, but I'd guess 500+ is not difficult at all. The idea of having several stations in one city is interesting and probably worth trying.

[belbincolne]

Doesn't sound as though you built industry either although logically this should be a good sound back-up for when trains aren't going too profitably?

[thietavu]

Doesn't sound as though you built industry either although logically this should be a good sound back-up for when trains aren't going too profitably?

Well, I have actually built industry too. :) It's just that especially in the beginning (the first 10 years or so) the money can be so tight that one has to choose. But you are right; investing in industries is a good idea when possible. This map was designed to be as realistic as possible; I investigated the available information about all the 170+ towns/cities and I set the industries etc. up according to that info. So, for example, if you need lots of steel, the North-East region takes care of it. If you can supply it with enough coal and iron, that is... Every (!) town in this map is different and was set up individually. I didn't just copy things - and the same applies to many other things. You, for example, find the Gobi desert in a quite accurate form. Of course, nothing is perfect, but at least there has been a lot of attention to details in designing this one.

The "transit links" outside the map can also be very useful. They don't all behave in a similar way. Most of them want to link to Beijing - which is kind of logical. But the link to Kazakhstan is very different from the link to Vladivostok. Etc.

[belbincolne]

Ye gods - the amount of work put into making the map must have been absolutey incredible.

[thietavu]

Ye gods - the amount of work put into making the map must have been absolutey incredible.

Yes, it did take some serious time. But somehow I wanted to create something huge, something never done before, you know. something to play with for a long, long time. That was my goal. Not just another scenario to "win", but a map to try over and over again, with countless strategies.

You will see the same principle in my forthcoming "Scandinavia" map. It might prove more challenging to some than the China Ultimate map. :)

[Sugus]

andybis is right: there is no condition in the 'Shanghai-Hanoi' event, which means, that it is impossible to get the golden medal! (I played till 1970 and connected Hanoi - no reaction. So I did an inspection by means of the editor.) At the moment, I'm not motivated enough to restart ...

[thietavu]

andybis is right: there is no condition in the 'Shanghai-Hanoi' event, which means, that it is impossible to get the golden medal! (I played till 1970 and connected Hanoi - no reaction. So I did an inspection by means of the editor.) At the moment, I'm not motivated enough to restart ...

Thanks for the report. I'll fix the Hanoi bug immediately. And besides, I'm adding some "meat" to the scenario too, since many people like it - things related to Vietnam war, the revolutions, WW2 etc. I hope those events and details will make this map more motivating to you and others. I shall publish the new map hopefully around next weekend.

[thietavu]

My sincerest apologies for the original, no-good China Ultimate map - nothing is more frustrating than playing a scenario a long time, only to discover that it can't be won. :(

I have now re-written, improved (a lot) and especially tested a new version 2 of China Ultimate for hundreds of hours and several months. Despite the map being VERY stressing for the computer (it is huge and extremely detailed) and some potential problems possible because of that, everything seems to work as it should now. I want to test-run the thing one more time, but unless something weird occurs, I expect to be able to upload China Ultimate 2.0 here already this week. I hope it will make up for the disappointment the first version was for many of you. At least I have not gotten bored during my hundreds of hours of testing it. :) The scenario has so many ways to win (or lose) that I found it very entertaining just to look for entirely different ways to connect e.g. Tibet or Sichuan to other places. It never repeats itself, it seems.

And yes, in this map, you *really* will find TrainMaster's new "level terrain" tools valuable! ;)

You read right: there are both RRT3 and TrainMaster versions of this map. I have only tested it thoroughly on TrainMaster, and I strongly recommend TM for this map anyway, but those of you who want to connect China using RRT3 1.06 (required) - you can.

Could site administration please remove the original "China Ultimate" map from the site? The new, vastly improved version will be available in a couple of days and the original version was no good anyway. Thanks! :)

[Hawk]

Could site administration please remove the original "China Ultimate" map from the site? Thanks! :)

Done! I just marked it Temporarily Unavailable.

http://hawkdawg.com/rrt/rrt3/map_arch/rt3_asia.htm

[thietavu]

A completely (!) re-made and thoroughly tested China Ultimate 2.0 is now available for the Trainmaster version of RRT3. I'm working on a version for "normal" RRT 1.06 as well - sorry for ridiculous waiting time! But this scenario actually works better in Trainmaster, so I recommend installing TM anyway.