Is there a chart anywhere or a discussion on the likely or expected profits of the various industries available under RT III please?
Whereas I know the primary industries, like grain or fruit, are likely to be less profitable than manufacturing industries, such as a textile mill or a steel works, is there any discussion that compares the profitability of the various industries. For example how does the profitability of a fruit orchard compare with say sheep, cattle, or grain?
Just asking from the point of view that given the choice, which are likely to be the most profitable industries to buy generally since I realise prices, etc can change with location and demand.
A search of the forum did not find anything on this topic.
Thanks and regards,
Rob
Industry Profitability
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Elite Marksman
- Watchman
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- Joined: Thu Nov 23, 2006 2:09 pm
As far as I know, there is no chart. However, based on my observations:
Mines are generally the least profitable, due to a limited number of customers late in the game and a relatively low price throughout.
Farms are next, but are good if you want steady income over a long period of time.
Cattle ranches are especially good money makers, if there is a decent price for cattle, they can bring in about 100k/year, 150 if supplied with corn, and generally have decent resale value should you want to sell it.
Simple industries (1->1) are next. The most profitable among these are generally meat packing, textile mill, lumber mill, and paper factory. These can bring in decent to very good profits, depending on market conditions, but beware, if you stockpile a raw material at your industry (which is neigh impossible to do) another industry will often spawn in the town, making yours less profitable
Complex industries (auto plant, steel mill) can be very profitable, but normally only late-game industries. In the early game, suppling a steel mill with sufficient coal and iron to make it profitable can be very difficult, and is often a big gamble that, if fails, often bankrupts you.
Fully upgraded steel mills are capable of generating well over 1,000K/year, just make sure to get the steel as far away as possible as soon as possible to keep the price raised and keep trucking in coal and iron, even far beyond what the steel mill itself uses, to depress the prices, generating maximum profit.
Furthermore, multiple industries that use the same raw material are not nearly as profitable when placed near each other as it inflates the price of the material.
Mines are generally the least profitable, due to a limited number of customers late in the game and a relatively low price throughout.
Farms are next, but are good if you want steady income over a long period of time.
Cattle ranches are especially good money makers, if there is a decent price for cattle, they can bring in about 100k/year, 150 if supplied with corn, and generally have decent resale value should you want to sell it.
Simple industries (1->1) are next. The most profitable among these are generally meat packing, textile mill, lumber mill, and paper factory. These can bring in decent to very good profits, depending on market conditions, but beware, if you stockpile a raw material at your industry (which is neigh impossible to do) another industry will often spawn in the town, making yours less profitable
Complex industries (auto plant, steel mill) can be very profitable, but normally only late-game industries. In the early game, suppling a steel mill with sufficient coal and iron to make it profitable can be very difficult, and is often a big gamble that, if fails, often bankrupts you.
Fully upgraded steel mills are capable of generating well over 1,000K/year, just make sure to get the steel as far away as possible as soon as possible to keep the price raised and keep trucking in coal and iron, even far beyond what the steel mill itself uses, to depress the prices, generating maximum profit.
Furthermore, multiple industries that use the same raw material are not nearly as profitable when placed near each other as it inflates the price of the material.
Industries on a map can be designed to be more or less profitable by the map maker.
The greater demand for a cargo normally the higher the profits. If you over supply a demand industry the value drops.
If RT3 does as RT2 did, any profit will never be less than 50% of the base profit. When expenses are substracted from the profit, Profit can move to zero or below.
The default prices on the RT2 base price chart I believe are close to those used in RT3. I think you can look at a general base price, if not mistaken, by clicking on a cargo car. Some cargos rot faster then others. (days to deliver)
An example: Milk with such a short rot time is hard to haul at a profit. It drops to a 50% value quickly. I normally increase the base price of milk on my maps so that expenses take longer to wipe out the milk profit.
As Elite stated: Manufactured cargo tends to be more valuable. Raw goods less so. But often raw goods are needed to produce manufactured goods.
In RT3 cargo flows on its own to a demand industry. So placing a demand industry among supply industries can reduce low value hauls.
(Let the wagonmasters haul it)
The greater demand for a cargo normally the higher the profits. If you over supply a demand industry the value drops.
If RT3 does as RT2 did, any profit will never be less than 50% of the base profit. When expenses are substracted from the profit, Profit can move to zero or below.
The default prices on the RT2 base price chart I believe are close to those used in RT3. I think you can look at a general base price, if not mistaken, by clicking on a cargo car. Some cargos rot faster then others. (days to deliver)
An example: Milk with such a short rot time is hard to haul at a profit. It drops to a 50% value quickly. I normally increase the base price of milk on my maps so that expenses take longer to wipe out the milk profit.
As Elite stated: Manufactured cargo tends to be more valuable. Raw goods less so. But often raw goods are needed to produce manufactured goods.
In RT3 cargo flows on its own to a demand industry. So placing a demand industry among supply industries can reduce low value hauls.
(Let the wagonmasters haul it)
Of the basic farming type industries, I have always found Fruit Orchards to be very profitable, approaching 40% if you can get them early which is always a key I have found to really profitable industry development. Also Dairy Farms and Cattle Ranches seem among the better ealier industry investments as mentioned by posters above.
Thanks for all your comments.
Regards,
Rob
Thanks for all your comments.
Regards,
Rob
I might not be correct on this since I play RT2 much more than RT3.
RT3 allows cargo to reach 50% of base value quicker while being hauled. I think it is correct that some values start at a higher level than in RT2; And, being able to buy industries does add a greater profit value.
Thanks Cliff for correcting that.
RT3 allows cargo to reach 50% of base value quicker while being hauled. I think it is correct that some values start at a higher level than in RT2; And, being able to buy industries does add a greater profit value.
Thanks Cliff for correcting that.
You can find an analysis of industry at my site.
http://www.exdx.net/RT3/page32.html
http://www.exdx.net/RT3/page32.html
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belbincolne
- Engineer
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- Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 7:28 am
- Location: Colne, England
Steve's analysis is great but I'd just add that (for example) a Steel Mill is only great if their is iron and coal (or a port/warehouse?) nearby and if it is then succesful a Tool & Die next door will be fabulous - I've never had a successful Aluminium or Plastics factory so can't say if the same is true.
Another thing is that some industries can be profitable next to one producer - milk/dairy, cattle/meat packing but others need more - cotton/sheep/textile, logs/lumber and again if you have a profitable lumber mill a furniture factory next to it will give good returns.
Finally. of course, the really daft thing about RT3 and industry is that it makes no difference where the industry is - provided it is near to prime resources it will make profits even though there is no-one around to buy the goods! Building a line to it will make no difference to it's profitability (although the line might be needed to take raw materials in) but the carriage of its goods might make the trains on it very profitable
Another thing is that some industries can be profitable next to one producer - milk/dairy, cattle/meat packing but others need more - cotton/sheep/textile, logs/lumber and again if you have a profitable lumber mill a furniture factory next to it will give good returns.
Finally. of course, the really daft thing about RT3 and industry is that it makes no difference where the industry is - provided it is near to prime resources it will make profits even though there is no-one around to buy the goods! Building a line to it will make no difference to it's profitability (although the line might be needed to take raw materials in) but the carriage of its goods might make the trains on it very profitable
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Elite Marksman
- Watchman
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- Joined: Thu Nov 23, 2006 2:09 pm
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belbincolne
- Engineer
- Posts: 526
- Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 7:28 am
- Location: Colne, England
Sorry but much as you ought to be right, you're not. Play any scenario where industry rather than railroading is the objective. Build no lines but put either a textile mill or lumber mill near cotton farms logging camps (and they're usually out in the wilderness, particularly logs), and you'll see that they are immensely profitable - it's the only way to win many scenarios. The goods don't need to move for the money to roll in.
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Elite Marksman
- Watchman
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- Joined: Thu Nov 23, 2006 2:09 pm
Actually you are both right. Even if there is no consumer of the product of some of these industries they will generally make a huge profit if supplied with enough raw cargo. For awhile. Sometimes it will take 10 years for the industry to go into the red. Take for instance lumber mills in remote places like in the middle of Siberia (Trans-Siberian RR map) these will often turn the maximum profit for a number of years. The lumber will spread out on its own toward some of the sparse houses. But after awhile the area will saturate if not picked up and hauled somewhere else. The price that the mill will pay will go down. The logs will then migrate toward higher paying mills.
Yeah, I have found that profitability will decrease quite a bit without demand. Try placing a lumber mill in the middle of three logging camps, with no trains to haul the lumber and not very many houses around.
First year, good profits once the lumber starts reaching the mill. Next couple of years, great profits. But then, the profits go down very quickly. It will not lose money, unless a depression hits, but the profits will remain very low unless something changes.
First year, good profits once the lumber starts reaching the mill. Next couple of years, great profits. But then, the profits go down very quickly. It will not lose money, unless a depression hits, but the profits will remain very low unless something changes.
The answer is in the industry's bookkeeping. It shows loads produced and loads consumed in the past couple of years. Revenue is the price of the finished product on that square, multiplied by loads produced. Materials cost is the price of the raw material multiplied by the number of loads consumed. Finally, there is a labour and overhead cost, which I have not worked out yet but appears to have a fixed component (overhead) and a component that increases with production level (labour).
If the finished product is worth more than the raw material, the building will produce. The larger the profit, the more rapid the conversion, provided there is adequate raw material.
One of my favourite pastimes of late is to fix ports and warehouses in various scenarios to ensure that swaps are profitable (e.g. one alcohol gives three or more bauxite).
Besides price there must be a supply of raw material, and a demand for the finished product. The reason that produce orchards and dairy farms take off so quickly when seeded is that there is widespread demand, in every house, in all eras. Each unupgraded house demands .03 loads of each per year.
You can build nice industry chains. Example: near some unprofitable logging camps, build paper mills, lumber mills and furniture factories. Then haul away the paper, lumber and furniture to large cities that are not getting these cargoes already. When the camps start to turn a profit, buy them up.
If the finished product is worth more than the raw material, the building will produce. The larger the profit, the more rapid the conversion, provided there is adequate raw material.
One of my favourite pastimes of late is to fix ports and warehouses in various scenarios to ensure that swaps are profitable (e.g. one alcohol gives three or more bauxite).
Besides price there must be a supply of raw material, and a demand for the finished product. The reason that produce orchards and dairy farms take off so quickly when seeded is that there is widespread demand, in every house, in all eras. Each unupgraded house demands .03 loads of each per year.
You can build nice industry chains. Example: near some unprofitable logging camps, build paper mills, lumber mills and furniture factories. Then haul away the paper, lumber and furniture to large cities that are not getting these cargoes already. When the camps start to turn a profit, buy them up.