new map for rrt3 v. 1.06 ESTONIA (Beta version)

[arop]

Atached to this topic is my latest map for v1.06, beta version, called ESTONIA, a small Baltic country at the size of Denmark or The Netherlands, and a railway map status approx. 1948. The heavy lines are railways still in use. The first railway in Estonia was built in 1870, game start 1870, game ends just before the Russian ocupation in 1940. Any feedback is wellcome

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Edit by Hawk: Attachment removed. File available in the archives in the Europe section.

[RayofSunshine]

Arop,
I really like the idea of having a thumbnail of the map scenario, which I can print, and thereby use it for reference, instead of having to scroll up-and-down on the map screen to locate cities, etc.
And this time I even had the "attachment" included on my computer. Things are looking up. LOL
Now I will give it an attempt to see what imagination you have brought to the forum.

[Sugus]

Started it yesterday, completed it today and - as expected - got by

a typical Sugus result (means: no problems with ILP, but always awaiting the PNW) with a typical arop map. Also, from my point of view and besides the geographical layout, there's no relevant connection with the history of Estonia. Vicious (as I am) I would say that the scenario also could be named "Back on Earth" or "Unkown Region" or ...

arop, it's great that you continuously "feed" the RT3 community with additional maps. Nevertheless, I thick that you should try to make your (future) maps more challenging. I've played most (feeled 95 %) of your maps with pleasure, but I'm still awaiting the one which forces me to cry "WOW"!

Thanks for your posted maps, arop, and no offence! Go on your way, but ...

[arop]

Sugus, do you have any sugestions about doing this map another way? How do you sugest the win conditions to be? You say, that this map has no historical connection to Estonia. Estonia was a part of Russia until 1918, and again 1940 to 1991, in the game period 1870-1940 I could not find more historic sources (I could have mentioned World war I and the Russian Revolution). Is it about the terrain? Estonia IS really as flat as the Netherlands, I had to exaggerate the hights by 100% (highest elelevation above sea level 318 m). It's ok if you don't like my maps, but please specify your critisism a little more, what you are so unsatisfied with .

[Sugus]

if you don't like my maps

is not at all the reason for my comments. On the contrary, it quite makes fun to play your maps.

BUT: it's simply always the same story, i.e.
- Bronze: x million CBV / y million LIP / z million PNW
- Silver: 2x million CBV / 2y million LIP / 2z million PNW
- Gold: 3x million CBV / 3y million LIP / 3z million PNW
and often a "connect A to B before ... or you lose"

Try to specify other types of goals, e.g. "haul x loads of y to/from z", "take over the company XYZ before ..." or operate with regions and setup conditions to get the access rights. There are lots of ideas in other maps!

(For me, a historical background for a map isn't of great interest. )

[arop]

for your comments. While this map is a beta version only, It's still possible to make improvements. At least, the map works properly, I have had some crash trouble with some other maps for a while, using too many non standard engines. I think I'll wait for some more feedback, before I'll try to make an improved version of this map .

[brunom]

Hey arop

I don't want to jump into a negative tone, but there is an issue that we discussed in your previous map and that, once again, you overlook in here. That's the fact that you plot all cities and towns in absurd straight lines. That's basically "shouting" at the player where he needs to lay track and giving him little to no choice.

Why didn't you plot the cities respecting the map you actually provide? It should be up to the player to decide where to lay track.

To be honest, I downloaded the map a few days ago, and was disappointed to find yet again a map with "strings" of little towns. I struggled whether I should write any comment about it or not. But I think your abilities in map making are under-used because you ignore two principles:

1. create choices for the player, not the opposite, it's about him/her
2. don't repeat a recipe you already tried before, it's about originality.

I am really sorry if this sounds patronizing, it's not my intention at all. My objective is the same as yours, to make a lot of great scenarios for others and enjoy the process along the way.
B

[arop]

for your comments Brunom, but take a look at the railway map, status 1948, attached to this topic, in fact it is one the most realistic maps I've ever built from the real world. All railways, the last built in 1929, are in place on my scenario. Some facts about Estonia: area 45.227 sq. km., population 1.4 mill. As you see, Estonia is a very sparesly populated country with only 30.2 inhabitants pr. sq. km. (Netherlands 325 inhabitants pr. sq. km), 40% of Estonia is forrests with straying boars, wolves and bears. All major cities and railway relevant towns are in place, even some hamlets with less than 1000 inhabitants. I have never built maps showing big cities only, while I like to have intermediate stations just like in the real world. I know, that a map like this might look like a construction kit, but that's the way it is, I don't have the same freedom as when I'm building a fantasy map, which I often do. In comparisation a map covering the the Netherlands with a very dense railway system would be more like a map of your preference, maybe I'll build it someday. Alternatively I have the following options about an Estonia map: 1) place some "dummy" hamlets on the map with a density 0 in the editor, just showing names. 2) Scale down the map, showing major cities only (an "Intercity system"). 3) Building an Estonia map, ignoring railway historical and geografical facts.

[RayofSunshine]

Well Brunom,
There are some interesting comments being suggested, and they could prove satisfactory additions to a creation.
Now I don't mind the "stretch" of continuous cities, but I am looking at the thumbnail you included in a previous thread. Am I to assume that the cities depicted are the "larger" cities, and that there are the multitude of cities which are "strung out" along the railway, between those larger cities shown. OR, are those "hamlets" your creation?

As to the one suggestion, I liked a scenario of which a player was required to have a required number of hauls "out" and another city which had a required number of hauls "into". Made for an interesting scenario challenge.

[arop]

Final version of this map plus a map showing Estonian railways approx. 1948 has been submitted to Hawk. A lot of (non railway relevant) small villages has been added

[belbincolne]

After a rash of new hard scenarios I've just given this one a run through. Played on Expert and reached Gold umpteen years early finding no errors on the way. Pleasent change from brain racking!

[RayofSunshine]

Didn't get as far as Bel in the play or completion, as I am watching the Masters Golf Tournament.
The goals just take a little amount of planning. I do find that the Electric Plants just don't continue to generate revenue. And most of the time a player has to initiate a couple of them in a location to handle the "supply".
I do notice also that the Quarries really get "stagnant" after a couple of years, even in the Booming economy. Makes for a player to keep a vigil on them, in order to produce an adequate amount of ceramics for the concrete.
What I would like to see in scenarios, is more use of the "crystal". Very few scenarios take advantage of them.
Not doing as well as Bel, as I think that I have distracted with the "tournament". LOL However, will continue, and give a result when I reach the deadline.

[arop]

for your comments!

[RayofSunshine]

Missed the Gold. I was able to get the oil to the electric plants, but maybe been more aggressive to get the ceramincs to the concrete plants, as I missed the requirement for the 1000 concrete hauls by 200+
What did seem to be the problem was that, although I increased the furnaces, the "rocks" just kept "piling up". And eventually I had to sell the furnace plants. This didn't hurt the LIP, but it did hold back on the CBV for a time, until other industries were purchased.
There was a limited amount of coal at Kunda, so that helped the GWH of the electric plants.
An interesting scenario, which keeps a person doing a constant planning. But due to the problem of getting an adequate transformation of "rocks to ceramics", the game went to the deadline, and wasn't able to shorten the time duration as that of Bel.
This scenario is similar to another, so had some idea of a system. But that didn't work as I found out. LOL

[belbincolne]

Back from one hol but as weather warming up off on others soon so dont know when I'll be playing next! Just on Ray's points. I rarely do anything with Elec as I can never generate enough power from them although if there's Uranium I might buy both mine and power just to make sure they dont shut down as uranium trains always seem to generate loadsa money. Similiarly with rock etc I simply dont know how to keep these industries profitable - ceramics / concrete may be profitable for a time but soon die as Ray says. I often try (and mostly fail) usually when its a scenario requirement. Here I didnt even try so got Gold without either power or concrete haulage.

[Hawk]

I also never fool with the electric plant goals. To me it's a waste of time.

[RayofSunshine]

Just "a glutton for punishment". I know that these lower end industries are losers, but, if a requirement or a help for haulage, I just get involved. In most instances I have to sell them at a lose, but that is part of the game.
It is just like the "dairy prossessor" in the Crete scenario. I give "potentials" a try, depending on the supply in the area. A player can run into the similar problem with a city with both a "tool & die" and a "warehouse" both requiring steel. They are all challenges, but I guess a player has to be "smart" enough, when not to get involved.
"Know when to hold, and know when to fold". LOL Just a game for fun. A good scenario.

[arop]

in my latest maps I have added the opportunity to better the PNW by adding players bonuses. But they are not mandantory. At all I try to change my conservative ways about win conditions, but my heart is still there, where it's more important to build and run a railway system serving the community (as in Europe and some other countries), rather than winning the game by all means with harsh old American Liberalism. By the way, the huge oil shell depostis in the northern part of Estonia, still exploided, descending from the Soviet era are more and more becoming a major enviroment problem