Something different: hydrogen-powered trains.

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Gumboots
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Something different: hydrogen-powered trains. Unread post

World premiere: Alstom’s hydrogen trains enter passenger service in Lower Saxony

Image

These have just been put into main line service in Germany.
The short version is: passenger traffic, 140 km/h top speed (87 mph), 1,000 km range (620 miles).

Basic layout shown here: https://www.alstom.com/coradia-ilint-wo ... cteristics

Alstom is negotiating contracts for more of these units, in several countries. They are (currently) more expensive to buy than equivalent diesels, but cheaper to run, and with the obvious benefits of much lower noise and no trackside pollution (the only output is water vapour).



Which all got me wondering how they could be classified in RT3. They're not steam, or diesel. They are effectively electric: the hydrogen fuel cells produce electricity, which runs the electric motors. In this respect they are functionally similar to a standard diesel/electric unit, in that they simply replace the diesel/generator source of electricity with a hydrogen fuel cell.

Still, they're definitely not diesel, and they have the advantage of being able to run on standard non-electrified track. This is one of their major selling points for regional lines: much cleaner than diesels, but no need for standard electric train infrastructure.
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Gumboots
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Re: Something different: hydrogen-powered trains. Unread post

RoR and I ran some basic tests of RT3 engine types. Turns out we can have a fourth category for non-conventional units like the iLint, and the solar-powered train in Byron Bay.

Using a hex value of 03 in the .lco file gives a blank category name, but everything else works normally. So non-conventional locos could be set to 03 to indicate that they aren't steam, or diesel, or conventional electric. These units are still powered by electricity, of course, but can run on normal non-electrified track.

Since they are still powered by electricity, and since there's no way of getting a non-blank category name, and since there are at least two different types of non-conventional units (solar/battery and hydrogen) already in operation, the best way of dealing with them in RT3 is probably to use a suffix on the loco name. Electric cars are commonly classified as either BEV (Battery Electric Vehicle) or FCEV (Fuel Cell Electric Vehicle). These would work just as well for loco names in RT3, so you could have one called "iLint FCEV", for example. !*th_up*!
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Gumboots
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Re: Something different: hydrogen-powered trains. Unread post

Several years later, these things seem to be taking off. This article is from September 2021.
Alstom's Coradia iLint hydrogen train runs for the first time in France
The first two 100% H2 iLint trains entered commercial service in 2018 in Germany and, to date, 41 trainsets have been ordered by two German states and successful trials have taken place in Austria, in the Netherlands, in Sweden and now in France.

In Italy, the operator FNM confirmed an order for 14 hydrogen-powered trains at the end of 2020.

This year, France also joined the circle of “founding countries” with an order from SNCF for 12 Coradia Polyvalent dual-mode trains (electric/catenary and hydrogen/fuel cell traction) for four French regions (Auvergne-Rhône-Alpes, Bourgogne-Franche Comté, Grand Est and Occitanie).
The note at the end is interesting: France are intending to use the obvious possibility of dual-mode units, for areas that already have catenary installed over some sections of the track. This would give much greater range, since the hydrogen would only be required over part of the route.

In more recent news, Romania has just signed a contract for 12 units: RO Govt. endorses procurement of twelve H2 trains

There's a more detailed article here: Ministerul Transporturilor a avizat achiziția a 12 trenuri cu hidrogen
I can easily translate that one if anyone is interested. ;)

Anyway: these things have scope for adding interest to new scenarios. For example, you could have events to trade off the cost of full electric track vs the cost of hydrogen trains and associated refuelling infrastructure, with the economics taken from real life examples. (0!!0)
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RulerofRails
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Re: Something different: hydrogen-powered trains. Unread post

Just curious about the real world economics you mentioned. Are they part of the Romanian (?, page seems to have .ro suffix) report you linked?

To paraphrase a bit my thoughts: it seems that adding "modern tech" to construction equipment and methods (greedy corporations, record profits they say) has dramatically inflated replacement cost of infrastructure. This seems to get worse each year.

Which is to say, that RT3 as we know it can't IMO be representative of the modern economy. What I mean is that with "realistic" prices, I am afraid that gameplay will feel dull. Probably slower than realistic pace track on SCBC. :lol: It could however be an interesting exercise to mess with a bit one rainy day. :idea:
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Re: Something different: hydrogen-powered trains. Unread post

What I was thinking was that prices would be adjusted to not kill gameplay. Rather than taking absolute values literally it would make more sense to use the relative costs of the two systems, so that it would work in an RT3 economy but would give a range of options for play. So you would use RT3's standard electric track cost as a baseline, then multiply that by whatever factor was about right to deal with the hydrogen system (cheaper track vs purchase price of units vs cost of refuelling infrastructure, etc).

The economics are obviously likely to improve over time, if these locomotives become more popular, and if hydrogen infrastructure itself becomes more widely used for a range of transport options (which is looking very likely).

The Romanian report mentions that the total cost given (€973 million) does include costs for building hydrogen infrastructure, and for all maintenance (locos + infrastructure) over a 30 year period. If they wanted more trains later, they could probably use the existing (by then) infrastructure to a large extent.

In case you're not aware: Romania still has a lot of non-electrified track and relies on a lot of old diesels in some areas.

RulerofRails wrote: Sat Jul 23, 2022 12:06 amTo paraphrase a bit my thoughts: it seems that adding "modern tech" to construction equipment and methods (greedy corporations, record profits they say) has dramatically inflated replacement cost of infrastructure. This seems to get worse each year.
Corporations are always "greedy", and will always push for the most profit they think they can get away with. That's what board members get rewarded for: returning maximum value to stock holders. If you want to stop corporations being "greedy" you have to regulate them effectively with legislation, which means you have to be prepared to enforce it. IOW, you have to accept that free markets are not the only worthwhile aim in life and that, as the saying goes, "there is no freedom without responsibility".
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Gumboots
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Re: Something different: hydrogen-powered trains. Unread post

There's an update on this. Saxony (see the OP) have decided, after extensive testing, that it will be more economical to use battery-powered electric trains for regional work instead of hydrogen fuel cells. TBH this does not really surprise me, given improvements in battery capacity and price over the past few years. Hydrogen fuel cells are, IMO, really only suitable for cases where you cannot use anything else. Charging a battery, and using the power from that directly, is always going to be much more energy-efficient overall. The equipment required is also simpler. Anyway...

German state ditches “world first” hydrogen train network for “cheaper” electric
The German state of Lower Saxony will redirect its attention away from hydrogen fuel-cell trains to battery electric trains, with the local transport authority announcing its plans to operate 102 battery electric trains from 2029 onwards.

Lower Saxony’s state-owned transport company LNVG (thankfully short for Landesnahverkehrsgesellschaft Niedersachsen) announced at the end of July that it will use only battery electric trains after it determined that they were “cheaper to run” than hydrogen fuel-cell alternatives...

...following extensive research, LNVG has decided to abandon its hydrogen plans in favour of battery electric trains, declaring that from 2029 the network will begin introducing 102 new battery electric trains.

LNVG found that the electric trains – able to be charged using overhead pantograph lines or at so-called “charging islands” to avoid the need for overhead contact wires – are cheaper than hydrogen and diesel alternatives.

LNVG expects the final diesel-fuelled trains to leave the tracks by 2037.
I suppose the next question is what Romania will do, and if they will attempt to change their contract to switch to battery units. I'll keep an eye on that. :)
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Gumboots
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Re: Something different: hydrogen-powered trains. Unread post

And, yep, Romania has now cancelled that order for hydrogen trains. They are now looking to get another (better) tender for the hydrogen units, but are also looking at battery-powered units too.

Romanian Railway Authority cancels procurement of 12 hydrogen-powered trains
Romania’s Railway Reform Authority, or ARF, has canceled the procurement procedure for 12 hydrogen-powered trains due to the submission of a single non-compliant bid.

The ARF evaluation committee, along with experts from the European Investment Bank, identified several significant non-compliances that could not be clarified by the bidder, the Consortium Alstom Transport, and Linde Gaz Romania. These non-compliances included a significantly lower availability of the trains, both in terms of the number of days of annual usage and the number of kilometers that could be covered each year.

The delivery schedule for the first train and the series delivery schedule was much longer than requested, given the time constraints of the National Recovery and Resilience Plan (PNRR). The bid also included non-compliant characteristics of the driver's cabins compared to the required ergonomic workspace for the train operator.
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