Cargo weight revamping

[Gumboots]

Ok dudes and dudettes, I have a minor bugfix for my custom boxcars pack.

This just sorts out a few bytes so that boxcars carrying Goods, Rubber and Tires will display the correct cargo icons on the ends of the cars.
Thanks to new enlightenment found today, I now know how to fix them, so they're fixed.

It's only three .cty files, and they get dropped in Data/CargoTypes to replace the existing files. Easy. Zip attached.

[Gumboots]

Ok, finally got motivated to sort out the reefer and flatcar cargoes for the new 8 eras.

At the moment they all work, but to get them running I've used default reefer and flatcar models and skins. So they'll change weight 7 times instead of 3 times, and they have the custom weights to match the rest of the custom cargo cars, but they still look like default PopTop cars of the same era.

Getting this result for flatcar cargoes required having a separate car type for each cargo. Basically, the default flatcar system has to be ditched entirely and new cars made for all cargoes. It just won't work otherwise. With seven cargoes, and eight eras for most of them, my enthusiasm for inventing oodles of cargo models and cars for every cargo for every era sorta ran out. At some point I'll probably get enthused enough to give some of them custom meshes and skins, but this was me just wanting the @&@!% things running. So, they run now.

The only really new cars are the Pulpwood cars. Pulpwood is now carried on flatcars instead of in covered hoppers, much like WP&P's old pulpwood flats. Those only had default eras and weights, while the new ones have the full custom eras and weights. They look like this:

Note that because they are using default PopTop models for the cars themselves, the B and C eras share the same cars. Ditto for D and E eras. Ditto again for F, G and H eras. However, you can still tell when they change weight, because the reefers change weight when the stock cars and hoppers and tankers and pax and mail cars and cabooses change weight, and all of those already have individual models and skins for all eras.

Similar deal with the flatcars. The flatcars change weight when the autoracks and boxcars and troop cars change weight, and all of those are already meshed and skinned for all eras, so you can still tell when your flatcars are getting heavier if you notice what the other cars are doing.

Zips are attached, for the new reefers and the new flatcars. Note that the xReefer zip contains 1 CargoTypes and 1 EngineTypes file for 1.06's Medicine cargo, and obviously those files (one .cty and one. cct) should only be copied into a 1.06 installation.

[Akarin]

Ok, finally got motivated to sort out the reefer and flatcar cargoes for the new 8 eras.

Note that because they are using default PopTop models for the cars themselves, the B and C eras share the same cars. Ditto for D and E eras. Ditto again for F, G and H eras. However, you can still tell when they change weight, because the reefers change weight when the stock cars and hoppers and tankers and pax and mail cars and cabooses change weight, and all of those already have individual models and skins for all eras

Zips are attached, for the new reefers and the new flatcars. Note that the xReefer zip contains 1 CargoTypes and 1 EngineTypes file for 1.06's Medicine cargo, and obviously those files (one .cty and one. cct) should only be copied into a 1.06 installation.

Thanks for the hard work! I am currently using WP&P's produce reefer pack. I just installed your reefer pack and it works fine on new games (for some reason saved games won't use your cars even after stopping at a station - this includes alcohol remaining in boxcars, which isn't related to WP&P). WP&P used FruitRefr.PK4 in the UserExtraContent and Fruit.cct/FruitA-D.car/FruitA-D.cgo in the EngineTypes folder. Is there any reason I would have to get rid of them at the moment? I will delete them eventually, but there doesn't seem to be any conflicts with your produce reefers and removing them now corrupts existing saved games.

[Gumboots]

No, they wouldn't work with saved games. Any modification that changes cargo assignation and file names for assets won't work with saves, because the saved game will always be locked to the previous format.

If the saved games are running fine with WP&P's fruit reefers then keeping them is entirely up to you.

Edit: Come to think of it, if you like the idea it would be quite easy to adapt WP&P's fruit reefers to this format. It only requires duplicating some assets for re-use of models and textures across multiple eras, along with editing change years and weights in the .car files. That should still be compatible with saved games, as it shares the same formatting. The extra eras should integrate smoothly.

[Akarin]

No, they wouldn't work with saved games. Any modification that changes cargo assignation and file names for assets won't work with saves, because the saved game will always be locked to the previous format.

If the saved games are running fine with WP&P's fruit reefers then keeping them is entirely up to you.

The saved game is just there so I have a late game to test things on. I don't plan on going back to it it was a scenario I need to go back and edit. As I said, I'll remove those files eventually as in whenever I get around editing my scenarios again.

Now here's a mystery. I just d/l the flatcar pack and while I was adding the files to the Enginetypes folder, I realized there was already a Pulpwood.cct file there. I checked in game and pulpwood cars were using double closed hoppers from your xHopCover_RC3 pack. But when I check out the pack, including the original zip file, there was no Pulpwood.cct file. To make things more mysterious, the file was timestamped with the exact same date and time as the other xHopCover_RC3 cargoes. Am I going crazy or did you release a pulpwood pack and I just didn't save the original zip file?

[Gumboots]

The only thing I did previously was put hopper cargoes in doubles, with the new eras and weights. That included pulpwood since it's a hopper cargo by default, and it included a .cct file since that's needed to use custom car types (which is what I suspect .cct stands for). You'll still need the new .cct because the car type has been changed.

[Akarin]

I'm just trying to figure out where the Pulpwood.cct file came from. It wasn't included in your xHopCover_RC3 pack (in fact there wasn't even a Pulpwood.cty file either) and there's no Pulpwood.cct file in the EngineTypes folder of the base game. It's not from WP&P either.

[Gumboots]

Probably from one of the earlier covered hopper packs. I would have included it in the first one, as it wouldn't work otherwise, but since it only sets car name there would be no reason to include it in update packs as car type wasn't changed (only years and weights). I really can't recall what was in each past zip, and I'm not sure if I still have copies of them all. I should probably make a final version of all zips, including all required files, just to be on the safe side.

[Akarin]

That must be it. I compilation zip of all the files would be great though, especially for fresh installs.

Btw, what happened with your reefer models?

[Gumboots]

I'll get onto the compilation thing.

The reefer models are still sitting in Blender, like a lot of other models. I'll probably do something with them eventually, or anyone else is welcome to if they don't want to wait. At the moment my head is focused on 19th century scenarios, and the default reefer models don't bug me much in that period.

TBH what prompted the latest pack was me wanting to set up a roster of early NSWGR locos, with tailored stats, and deciding that it really was time I got all the cargo cars running with the same weight scale.

[Akarin]

Well they're always welcome, no rush. I think all my freight cars are now set to your weight scale. The only thing next for me is your express cars. I'm still using WP&P's for the Pennsy livery and bc I can't remove them and add yours without ruining my saved games. It's a shame about the flatcar loads though.

[Gumboots]

Doing all the flatcar loads is a lot of work. Come to think of it, you could spend endless amounts of time detailing up the rest of the cars too. That's why I figured getting it running with basic (but decent) models made sense. Once the structure is set up the eye candy can be changed anytime, and done a bit at a time so it's not overwhelming. Upgrades would be just a matter of swapping PK4's without having to worry about any other files.

You got me thinking about saved games. Obviously the game is storing information for cargo cars somewhere. It shouldn't be hard to find out where either. That opens the possibility of editing the hex directly to make saves compatible with changed cargo cars if anyone wants to do that. I've already been editing the .gmp hex to sort out station names after testing scenarios, and that's an easy process.*

Re Pennsy livery: sure, it's nice, but personally I can't stand having Pennsylvania signwriting on cars all over the world. It just doesn't fit and it never feels right to me. But if you wanted to take my express cars and stick "Pennsylvania" on the sides that would be easy.

*Edit: Took a quick look in a save. Finding and editing where the basic cargo (and car) definitions are is easy, but what I forgot was all the loads on trains. Those also reference the cargo car files, and editing all of those could be a nightmare, so updating saves probably isn't going to be practical.

[Gumboots]

I whipped up a basic spreadsheet for comparing mixed consists and freight consists with express in terms of weight.

I was curious as to when it would be possible to use an express loco to haul freight, without overloading it in terms of grunt up grades or in terms of reliability. The idea was that there should be scope for hauling really fast freight sometimes, as long as the load is chosen carefully. It wouldn't be worth the extra fuel cost for most freight, but occasionally you might want to move something quickly.

So I made a sheet that allows checking any freight or mixed consist for any of the 8 eras, and seeing exactly how it compares in terms of load with a full (8 car) express consist. It would be easy to modify to compare with a 6 express car consist too, or any other number, but at the moment full express consists are what I'm running so they are the obvious reference point.

The tables in the sheet are labelled as being for 1850-64 and for 1865-1874, but the ratios of car weights are the same throughout the progression of eras. This is a 25 year cycle for each grouping of cars, with a 10 year stagger between groups.

In relative terms, the 1859-64 tables will also work for 1825-39, 1875-89, 1900-14, 1925-39, 1950-64, 1975-89, and 2000 to infinity. The 1865-1874 tables will also work for 1840-1849, 1890-1899, 1915-24, 1940-49, 1965-1974, and 1990-1999.

As a rough guide: if you want to do the classic consist of mostly express but with a reefer of milk at the head of the train, that will work as 6 express + 1 reefer for any era. It will always equal the weight of 8 express cars to within a fraction of a ton. On the other hand, if you want to haul flat cars of uranium or steel, or box cars of goods or clothing, 3 of any of those will also equal the weight of 8 express cars (or as near as makes no difference) so your loco will perform exactly the same hauling them as it would with its normal express consist. Or you can haul 1 pax + 2 hoppers (or tankers) at fractionally less than the weight of 8 express cars.

Which sounds more confusing than it really is. It's pretty simple, really.

A good rule of thumb is that the ratios of weights go like this:

Express (pax, mail, troops): relative weight = 6 (this is just proportions, not absolute values, so bear with me).
Light freight (reefers, stock): relative weight = 12 (ie: 1 reefer = 2 express cars weight).
Medium freight (box, flat, autorack): relative weight = 15 (ie: 2 and a 1/2 express cars).
Heavy freight (hoppers and tankers): relative weight = 20 (ie: 3 and a 1/3 express cars).

Full express consist is relative weight of 8 x 6 = 48. So that's four reefers, or 3 box cars (plus a fraction you can't use), or two of the heavy cars (plus a fraction you can't use) if you want to stay within the limits of express consist weight.

[Gumboots]

I was just making a new test installation, and realised I never properly packed the E to H express cars I posted back here. I don't think I ever made proper profile icons for them either. I've been running earlier eras so much that I'd forgotten about the 20th and 21st century stuff. Only got reminded today when I was copy/pasting files from one installation to another.

I'll take a look at getting a proper pack sorted.

[AMD 103]

Gumboots,

Could you make a tank car set without the Rail Whales? As much as I like them, and they were a common fixture here in Southeast Louisiana, they didn't last too long, with retirements beginning in the early 1970s, and only tended to be a small part of the overall tank car fleet.

[Gumboots]

#^@%@@&!!
How about you make them. Anyway, there are a few still kicking around. And they were used in countries other than the US too.

I could make another double tanker model for whatever era the whales are for (can't remember offhand) but I put a lot of work into them whales and I kinda like them, so I'm not in a real hurry to do replacements. I suppose someone could split the whales out to one particular cargo that isn't all that common, so that they still turned up sometimes but not as often. Then do an intermediate double tanker to fill the rest of that era's cargoes.

[AMD 103]

I was just thinking about extending the G era from 1975 to 9999, and making that the F era, not a whole new set of models.

Time to figure out how to do RT3 coding, again, because it's been years since I've done it.

[Gumboots]

Well the thing is they change weight, so really should have G era .car files. But you could just re-use the same models if you felt like it. I had to do that for stock cars, because they weren't built after 1980 anyway.

[Gumboots]

This is weird. Quick reply is working perfectly again (famous last words).

[AMD 103]

Well the thing is they change weight, so really should have G era .car files. But you could just re-use the same models if you felt like it. I had to do that for stock cars, because they weren't built after 1980 anyway.

Which is what I did. I only modified the model references in the *.car file so the weight progression should remain the same.

Should I pack this all up into my own version of your set?

Edit : For those of you who aren't aware, this file replaces the F-era Rail Whales In the Gumboots Double Tankcar set with the smaller dual cars from the G-Era. Weight progression remains the same.