Cargo weight revamping

[Gumboots]

Yeah I had a couple close to that shade. I'm not going to do lettering though. For a default car set I specifically want to avoid having railroad or country names on the cars. I'd prefer a generic set to just look good generically, so they fit in anywhere as much as possible. Having "Pennsylvania" on WP&P's custom express cars, when my trains are running around somewhere completely unrelated to Pennsyltucky and its friends, always bugs me a bit.

Anyway, this is what I came up with for a set. I think the colour progression looks cabooseish.

A, B and C are default red, with the roof skin on A and B patched to get rid of the redundant cupola outline. D is faded rusty red/brown, which I thought looked about right for a weathered C caboose body that was still being dragged around long after it should have retired.

E is still green coz I like it, but tweaked a bit. F is an ochre/orange. G is back to default red for the last of the Mohicans. I liked the sort of beginning and end feel there.

On the custom coloured ones I cut out the windows and handrails, etc back to the default skin (layer underneath) before saving. This gives a better look than just leaving them with the basic hue change all over.

So the next trick is to do the required modelling changes for the lack of cupola on A and B, and the longitudinally flipped body on D. I can use the default LOD's for that and just modify them to suit, which is the easiest way of doing it. Splitting a .3dp down into separate LOD's and then putting it back together again isn't a drama. I'll also do the LOD's for the DDS skins, but that's just basic copy/paste stuff.

Then I can pack 'em up and go railroading.

[Gumboots]

Got the End of Train Thingummy skinned. The A skin for it is only 128x128 as I couldn't see the point of going high res on something this small. Looks ok though, even at fairly close range. I think it'll do.

Here's what it looks like stuck on the G era caboose. Not that you'd use it like that, but it was a handy car in Blender at the time.

Edit: Oh yeah, the weight value I threw into the .car file is 3c 3c 3c 3c, which translates to 25 lbs 12oz.

[Just Crazy Jim]

Well done, Gumboots.

Now all we need are some hobos and railroad police to run back and forth on the top of the cars.

[Hawk]

Yea! I like that.

[Gumboots]

So I got the meshes sorted for the A, B and D era cabeesi, including all 5 LOD's. Haven't done the LOD's for the skins yet but will do that tonight, then pack and test the lot.

I did notice one odd thing. The default A caboose has 6 lights on it: one each on the front and back of the tiny cupola, and two each on the ends of the body, under the roof overhang.

So obviously I lost the top two when removing the cupola, which is fine. I expected to have to move some when I did the flip of the default B to make the new D caboose, but then found that the default B and C don't have any lights at all! I'd never noticed. I'm not sure I can be bothered adding any, since nobody else seems to have noticed either.

Funnily enough the default D is back to having four lights again (two at each end of the body).

If anyone really wants lights on the new B, C, D and E cabooses (default B and C models) grumble about it enough and I might make some.

[Gumboots]

Ok, one caboose pack. AFAICT this is the finished and final version. Files for upload in the attached zip. Probably not compatible with saved games, so would suggest starting a new game or sandbox to try them out.

The H era "caboose" EOT tends to jiggle around a little bit on the back of the last freight car, due to how RT3 cars work. It will also disappear inside the last freight car on a tight right hand bend, because of the game bug that scrunches the consist on right hand bends and stretches it out on left hand bends.

Apart from that everything seems to be fine.

Code: Select all

#Caboose Cargo Revamp RC 1 (Gumboots stuffz).
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Files for the caboose only.

1/ The eight new Cabo*.car files go into Data/EngineTypes. There is no need to remove the four old files. The new ones will just overwrite them anyway.

2/ Load the new PK4 (#Caboose_Cargo_Revamp) into PopTopExtraContent.

You can do this by just copying the two folders in this zip to the root directory of your RT3 installation.
This will take care of the file replacement, without borking anything else.
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Congratulations. You now have nifty new cabooses.
These change in weight every 25 years, instead of just doubling in weight every 50 years.
They are also lighter than the standard caboose of the same era.

The weights have been changed from the Beta version of this pack,
and some skins and models have been replaced with better ones.
The era dates have also been changed, and an extra era added.

The last, H era, "caboose" is an EOT (look it up if you don't know what that is).
So you can easily tell when your train is using it, the H era "caboose" uses the profile icon for the A era.
I thought that made more sense than a giant EOT image, which would look a bit weird IMO.

Weights are:

A era - 1800 to 1839 - 4 tons.
B era - 1840 to 1864 - 5.2 tons.
C era - 1865 to 1889 - 7.2 tons.
D era - 1890 to 1914 - 10.2 tons.
E era - 1915 to 1939 - 15.6 tons.
F era - 1940 to 1964 - 22.4 tons.
G era - 1965 to 1989 - 30.8 tons.
H era - 1990 to 9999 - 0.01 tons (26 lbs, or what an EOT weighs).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Note: Since this system completely replaces the standard cars, it won't work with any games that were saved with standard cars.

Nor will it work with any games that were saved with WP&P's custom cars.

For testing it is best to start a new game or sandbox.
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If there are any questions, ask in this thread: http://hawkdawg.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=3933

EDIT: The old RC1 zip has been removed. A new RC2 zip, with bug fixes applied, is available in this post.

[Gumboots]

Oh and to update people on what's happening here: after more thought and kicking ideas around via PM, I've decided to go for a simpler system than I was going to do before. The idea of this is to get a better range of weight changes, for more player interest over time, so any system that will deliver that result is good enough.

After thinking it through some more (one benefit of taking yonks to get this together) I've ditched the heavy and light classes for boxcars and flatcars. All cars of a particular class will now be the same weight, so anytime you see a boxcar you'll know what it weighs, without having to check if it's a particular sort of boxcar. The scale looks like this:

Passengers, dining car, troops: 2 to 20 to weight range.
Reefers and stock cars: 4 to 40 ton weight range (faster-rotting, so a bit easier to haul).
Autoracks, boxcars, tankers: 5 to 50 ton weight range ("average" freights).
Flatcars, covered hoppers, open hoppers: 6 to 60 ton weight range (heavy industry, mining, grain trains, etc).

Cargoes are split into two groups:

Group 1: Autoracks, boxcars, flatcars, mail, troops, and the caboose.
Group 2: Hoppers (any sort), reefers, stock cars, tankers, passengers, and the dining car.

They're done that way just to get a good balance between the two groups.

Group 1 changes on a 25 year schedule, with the first change in 1840. Group 2 is also on a 25 year schedule, with the first change in 1850. Or to look at it another way, Group 2 basically changes the same as default cars, except twice as often (1850 > 1875 > 1900 > 1925 > 1950 > 1975 > 2000). Group 1 changes 10 years earlier.

[Gumboots]

And just to get this show on the road (finally) I'm starting with default models for all cargo cars. Fancier stuff can come later, after the basics are playable.

What I'm doing is making the new intermediate eras by stretching the default cars 25% for length. This still looks fine and is easy to model, with no skinning work required. So it starts with the default A model, which then gets stretched 25% to make the new B. The old default B becomes the new C, and gets stretched 25% to make the new D. Etc, etc.

Pix attached, showing the models for A, B, C, D, E, F, G and H eras, for boxcars, flatcars, reefers and stock cars. Will get onto the rest tonight.

Edit: Added autoracks (A, B, C, D and E) and tankers (A, B, C, D, E, F and G). The early autoracks (boxcar models) will get some signwriting to make it clear what they are carrying.

[Gumboots]

Annnnnnnnnnnnnndddd hoppers!

The open hoppers really need a bit of fixing anyway, due to the bug with cargo models being borked by the default hopper's built-in coal cargo skin. It makes sense to plan ahead for expansion to 1.06, so what I'll do is implement the fix discussed here. That way cargo models for coal, iron and bauxite will look fine. When a cargo model isn't called (as per 1.06 bugz for rock and ore) the hopper will display a built-in crushed rock cargo skin.

Since this means I have to mess around with the open hoppers a bit anyway, and since the range of default models is a bit restrictive, I'll do the last two eras as a double and a triple. Might as well.

So to get testing underway I'll whip up the stuff for the first four eras (basically, 1830 to 1915). If it works well over that period, it'll work just as well for the rest.

[Gumboots]

Express stuffz. Same deal. Default models, with intermediate eras are just stretched or compressed lengthways. It works. Mostly default skins, with a couple ripped from TM and WP&P just to make up the troop cars. I'll probably drop a grey roof on all of those.

I could have left out the troop cars and just let them run in pax cars, like RT3 does by default, but I'm used to WP&P's troop cars and like having them. And just for fun I might do the A era pax, dining and mail as doubles.

[Just Crazy Jim]

It all looks brilliant. I have the Caboose mod installed and like it.

The one thing I would suggest (very humbly) is that you consider making the 1800-1839 tanker a wooden tub on a flatcar with a tarp over it or something to that effect, because metal tankers are definitely post 1850.

I honestly dislike the blue passenger coaches, I don't know of any railway that ever used that livery. AFAIK, there wasn't even blue paint available in any quantity until some time in the early 1900s. Until then, you had your choice of browns (mixed red and yellow ocher), dulls reds (red ocher based), bland yellows (yellow ocher based), black (tin salt based), grey (a blend of zinc and tin salts) and white (zinc salt based), with a few odd pastels based on copper salts mixed with one or both kinds of ocher. The pigments for green and blue were copper salts and they didn't make the sorts of paint that jump with color, if you know what I mean. It may be anal retentive, but I generally run WP&P's car mod for that reason.

[Gumboots]

This is just to get things running without agonising over skinning. I don't like the default pax skins or most other default skins either, but they are a consistent pack, they are what most people use, and they will work for now without any effort on my part. These are strong considerations at this stage. Like I said:

Fancier stuff can come later, after the basics are playable.

Several companies used a blue livery for passengers. The Orient Express used it, and still does. NSWGR used it for some of their trains. VR used a blue and gold livery for the Spirit of Progress. CNJ had the Blue Comet. LMS and LNER used blue at times on some of their trains. So yeah, lotsa blue pax cars running around. Nothing wrong with blue. I like it. I just don't like the PopTop skinz.

There is no pre-1840 tanker in the game, and I'm not going to make one at this stage. Tankers aren't used until oil appears in 1860. For this pack, for now, I am not changing that. If you want to model and skin an early "tanker", I'm prepared to include it.

[Cash on Wheels]

Can't wait for the rock hoppers & autoracks!

I will inculed the rock hoppers with my maps just to help push them out.

[Gumboots]

You won't be able to "include them in a map". They're not something that can be set in the editor. They're just cargo cars. If you have the files for them installed, they will appear anytime you have a cargo that uses a hopper. If you don't have the files for them, the game will use the default hoppers.

If you want to encourage people to use them that's all good. I certainly want people to use this stuff. But it wouldn't make sense to zip the cargo car files up with every map you make.

I suppose I should knock the hoppers and flatcars off first. They're the most difficult/tedious ones to get sorted. The others are a no-brainer (just tedious, no difficulty).

With the flatcars, it may be necessary to just stick with four profile icons per cargo (IOW, default A, B C and D icons) due to the apparent restrictions on profile icons with those cargoes. If I can find a workaround quickly and easily I'll extend it out to the full 8 eras, but I suspect that won't be possible.

Other cargoes shouldn't be a problem. I already know hoppers (open and covered) can be made as individual cargoes with custom icons. WP&P demonstrated that. Ditto for boxcar and reefer cargoes, even though he only did a couple of them. I've done it for autoracks. I expect it will also be fine for tankers and stock cars.

Short version: every car type except flatcars should be able to have a proper profile icon for each era, and for each cargo if we want to split them down further, but flatcars may be limited to four icons which will have to be shared between some eras. So you'll still see the flatcars change on your actual trains, but you wouldn't see some of the changes on your train list.

[Hawk]

Can't wait for the rock hoppers & autoracks!

I will inculed the rock hoppers with my maps just to help push them out.

One thing to keep in mind, FWIW - folks have a tendency to not read any read me files that might include instructions for extra equipment needed for maps, even if the extra equipment is included with the map.
Plus there's still folks out there that aren't computer savvy enough to actually install the extras properly.

I say this because I still get a lot of emails from folks that have problems with anything other than a default install of RT3.

I'm not in any way trying to discourage you, just pointing out something you may not have considered.

[Cash on Wheels]

Can't wait for the rock hoppers & autoracks!

I will inculed the rock hoppers with my maps just to help push them out.

One thing to keep in mind, FWIW - folks have a tendency to not read any read me files that might include instructions for extra equipment needed for maps, even if the extra equipment is included with the map.
Plus there's still folks out there that aren't computer savvy enough to actually install the extras properly.

I say this because I still get a lot of emails from folks that have problems with anything other than a default install of RT3.

I'm not in any way trying to discourage you, just pointing out something you may not have considered.

Sounds like you are looking forward to one of my maps that has an option to use a split furnace. Two .bca files and .bty file.

When gumboots does release these they will be hot. Of couse they will be in the download section. But my previous 3 & next 2 maps all have preplaced high volume quarrys in them. And those black unit coal trains coming out of them look awful. Nearly everyone playing this game has a model train collection of some size. So bad looking trains are no no, they are fixed up or scraped for parts.

[Just Crazy Jim]

I really did not appreciate the effort involved in making rolling stock mods until I spent the past 3 days in a hex-editor trying to make my own small mode to the era progression for the 19th century... and I thought it would be easier than making a locomotive, so a nice way to practice the "big boy skills"... um, right.

Nothing about this is "easy". I'll get it done, but the "easy" went on a coffee break and never came back. Making the models was the easy part. Getting them injected into the game (and working as intended) is a bit like getting a man on the moon with a catapult. I'm learning something valuable too. Game developers don't have the same mindset as a modder. They work on quite a bit more than the "pretty parts", so it might never occur to them that someone might want to make, say, a complete set of Swedish rolling stock from the 1860s for their very 20th century oriented, very American game....

What I brought home from my effort is this: Gumboots, sir, you must have exceptional patience, determination, and powers of concentration. My respect for you is larger than it was before and it was not small before. I owe you at least 6 beers and 1 screen door for your privy.

[Gumboots]

It's mainly taking so long because of time and energy constraints in relation to other (non-RT3) things that need doing. The actual work required isn't too bad**. I'm going to make a push to get it finished this month. That should hopefully mean we can start the new year with a complete package that includes adjusted locomotive stats (which will be required to take best advantage of this new scale).

**Well, apart from the infamous unknown RT3 booby traps, but I can work around those now.

[Gumboots]

Got the skins for the express cars figured out. Ending up doing a bit of tweaking just because I've always hated the default blue roof on pax and dining cars, and the huge yellow blob on the sides of the dining car. Plus I've never liked the sort of pale vomit yellow of the mail cars either, and we needed proper troop cars, so I came up with some quick and easy improvements that will do for a default set.

Troop cars are army green/khaki with a grey roof. Mail cars are a pale blue/grey. Pax and dining cars now have a pale blue/grey roof, and the dining cars have blue sides with white striping. The skins are all sorted for all eras, and I have also sorted all the .3dp files to go with them. I just have to double check a few things, sort out some profile icons and the .car files, then pack them all up and see how they go.

IOW, all express cars will be ready to go in the next day or so.

Edit: Oh yeah, and I found a good trick to save work on the .3dp's. Turns out that although the mail cars use different models to the pax and dining cars by default, the default mail car skins are done so they drop straight onto the model for pax and dining.

I suspect that during development they were using the same models for pax, dining and mail but changed the mail car models at the last minute by scaling them down a bit. So this is handy for me because I just ditched the default mail car models and renamed the pax .3dp's for mail. That's quite a lot fewer customised .3dp's to worry about.

[Just Crazy Jim]

They look great! And I had noticed that about the mail wagon. I used it to my advantage :D

Odd factoid: I am not sure precisely, but until sometime in the 1970s, the C&O, B&O, and N&W painted their track repair and utility wagons (transporter wagons, flatcars, crane-cars, crew cars, motor section cars, etc) Olive Drab with black roofs or (not often) just black, after that they generally switched out to yellow with some degree of black-and-yellow hazard striping, although some feature snazzy reflective orange-and-white hazard striping around doors over the coupling.