Locomotive fixes for 1.06

[bombardiere]

I have been here couple days and tried to read all that has happen. I still feel a bit lost. Exited about new developments but frustrated that there is so much to learn and understand. I feel that I like to do something but I don't know where to start.

To honest, I don't think that there were much planning when we did 1.06. Milo did the coding and rest of us just throw in what ever assets we had available. I agree that it is best to balance locomotives within a region, not as whole. So instead of bit random locopack 1.06, there should have been something like an American locopack, UK locopack, German locopakc, etc. Off course this would require a huge effort to achieve. An American pack is perhaps most realist and a lot can be done using Pop Top's assets.

I you feel that you want to remove some disliked engine from 1.06, please do so. Is there many 1.06 dedicated scenarios? I think that there may not be that many, so may be it is possible go through those and remove offending locos and replace those with something more useful. Better to move on and not to worry too much backwards compatibility.

Anyway, kudos to your freight work. This is the area which needs most attention. Big freight engines were not useful in the game, because freight train was too light in comparison to express. So for best game play, a few good mixed engines were enough,and I never liked that. I wanted slow freight engines hauling long trains. And making profit from it. :)

Do I understand correctly that you have made some of freight wagons as double? To make trains look longer in the game. That is a good idea and it was discussed during the early days. :) I think that the issue was to make wagons flexible enough not to fly around.

Okey, I feel that I can't just visit empty handed, so I offer a picture of something I made. This is intended as Simcity 4 prop, so it is very crude. Even in Simcity's the closest zoom it is about half of thumb's nail, so details are not needed. However even in this crude state, this is over 5000 polys. Granted, about half is from the buffers and coupling hooks. So it is anything but game ready.

[RulerofRails]

Going by the statistics Hawk provided here: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=4002&start=20, there are 195 1.06 maps. Scanning quickly through I'm guessing that about a quarter of them are translations of the same map into another language, giving a total of about 150 maps made for 1.06.

Yes. I totally agree that sticking with a few Mixed engines is the best for Auto Consist running with the default car weights. With the revised weights with a bigger relative difference between express and freight, it would be very easy to just assign locos as Freight or Express and then have a clear separation of use. Downside is that this isn't realistic. Gumboots and I are therefore making an attempt to tune Mixed engines that are not useless or unusable due to high running costs but still wont be the preferred choice for general use.

PS.
I would recommend trying the Pennsy H3 that Gumboots made. If you look at it in-game, the quality is insane.

[Gumboots]

I have been here couple days and tried to read all that has happen. I still feel a bit lost. Exited about new developments but frustrated that there is so much to learn and understand. I feel that I like to do something but I don't know where to start.

Fair enough. There is a lot of information strewn all over the place. If you like, just start your own thread and start asking me questions as they occur to you. I can probably put my hands on the right information pretty easily, if I don't already have it memorised.

And really I would welcome any cooperation on getting things done, no matter how small.

I you feel that you want to remove some disliked engine from 1.06, please do so.

I've since decided not to do that. Better to fix them. After throwing a bit of mesh at it I can stand looking at the revamped Vittorio now, although it's still not game-ready.

Do I understand correctly that you have made some of freight wagons as double? To make trains look longer in the game. That is a good idea and it was discussed during the early days. :) I think that the issue was to make wagons flexible enough not to fly around.

Yes, quite a few doubles. I've found that it's not hard to get them bending properly around corners. It's just a matter of playing with the TrackPoint.3dp values. It's a compromise. The wheels won't perfectly follow the track around any and every radius corner, and you have to use track point values which don't make sense at first glance, but it's not hard to end up with double freight cars that bend convincingly 99% of the time.

The only drawback is that the entire wheelbase will always be perfectly rigid vertically, so the longer unit the worse it will look over lumpy track.

Okey, I feel that I can't just visit empty handed, so I offer a picture of something I made. This is intended as Simcity 4 prop, so it is very crude. Even in Simcity's the closest zoom it is about half of thumb's nail, so details are not needed. However even in this crude state, this is over 5000 polys. Granted, about half is from the buffers and coupling hooks. So it is anything but game ready.

You'd be amazed at how much detail you don't need in RT3. The front of the smokebox on the Pennsy H3 is just a simple square. All the eye candy is done with the texture. Several default locomotives use the same trick.

The freight car in that shot is nice, but for RT3 you could easily do it at around 150 tris complete.

[bombardiere]

I've since decided not to do that. Better to fix them. After throwing a bit of mesh at it I can stand looking at the revamped Vittorio now, although it's still not game-ready.

Oh, I rather hoped that those could rest in peace. I looked up some of my old files and I can't understand why you are moaning about Vittorio. There are much worse atrocities included in the 1.06 pack. Oh come on, Today I can't understand what I was thinking when I tried to make German Kriegslok into Russian Class S prairie. At least Vittoria is roughly same size and shape. Russian Class S has nothing in comparison to Kriegslok.

Too much enthusiasm and only one loco book to go with. "The illustrated Directory of Trains of the World". Incidentally I think Poptop used the same book (or version of it) as I think all of their locos are from this book. Including their esoteric choices.

I should have focused in US engines, as those offered better prospects. I like your PRR H3 (Class R) This was one of those I wanted to do, although you can do it better with Blender.

Okey, I better see if I can give some of my diesels and Electrics a facelift. These days I am really only interested in steamers, but I think I should start with something small and manageable. For example to adjust PopTop's model to make it more look like German electric E111.

However, this is no promise, but atleast my interest is aroused enough that I installed RRT3 and started to play the campaign. I got it as GOG bargain and I am astonished that this version works in my modern computer without any extra effort. Last time when I installed it from the disc, I needed all kinds of fixed from this website.

The freight car in that shot is nice, but for RT3 you could easily do it at around 150 tris complete.

Certainly. As a test project, I might try to convert this to RRT3. Alone this wagon is not much of a use, but perhaps to see if I can do it. My 3D modelling software is 3DS MAX, so it works under polys. I may have troubles to get my around with tris. :) As this is a wagon and not an engine, for gaming purpose that 150 is probably a good target.

Does anyone done of tried to do a Grasshopper locomotive? I that could a suitable learning project for me. I liked that from RRT1. It may be useless as an engine, but I had fond memories. It as a Thomas the tank engine for me I guess.

[Gumboots]

I have the Vittorio and the Class S roughed out, with the Vittorio being more advanced.
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I figured since there were already maps that used these locos, someone probably ought to fix them. And personally I'd rather do non-US locos, for several reasons:

1/ The game is short of non-US locos anyway, so it would be good to have more.
2/ Americans who want more US locos can make them, if they really want to. They don't need me to do everything for them.
3/ Making non-US locos is just as easy as making US locos. There's no difference from a modelling and skinning perspective.
4/ I'm not American. I like non-US locos.

If you only want to do steamers, I'd say do steamers. They're not all that hard as far as modelling goes. Most of the work is in skinning them.

My 3D modelling software is 3DS MAX, so it works under polys. I may have troubles to get my around with tris. :)

They're the same thing. Only the name is different.

A Grasshopper is sort of possible but sort of not. The problem is the game's animation limits. You only have bogies, drivewheels, connecting rods and coupling bars to play with, and all of those are limited in what they can do. So you can certainly make the mesh and skin for a Grasshopper, but you'd have to fudge the drivetrain quite a bit.

[bombardiere]

Looks like you are doing a good job with replacement models.

I figured since there were already maps that used these locos, someone probably ought to fix them. And personally I'd rather do non-US locos, for several reasons:

1/ The game is short of non-US locos anyway, so it would be good to have more.
2/ Americans who want more US locos can make them, if they really want to. They don't need me to do everything for them.
3/ Making non-US locos is just as easy as making US locos. There's no difference from a modelling and skinning perspective.
4/ I'm not American. I like non-US locos

Fair enough. I was thinking Americans because balancing point. American loco list is most completed, so it would offer a starting point too see what is needed. Many American scenarios are fun to play and I always want to see more loco variations around. More engines, not only great ones, but pure lemons too. I have wanted to do bad engines too. Such as this Vittorio. A bad engine in a normal map, but perhaps in special conditions, it could be useful. Like a good grade climber.

Anyway, I am into UK locos. Probably can be seen from the work I have done. So, I like of what you have shown about your projects. School Class is one of my favourite.

A Grasshopper is sort of possible but sort of not. The problem is the game's animation limits. You only have bogies, drivewheels, connecting rods and coupling bars to play with, and all of those are limited in what they can do. So you can certainly make the mesh and skin for a Grasshopper, but you'd have to fudge the drivetrain quite a bit.

Back to reality wake up call. Of course my solution to those valves would be to make them statistic. You have probably learnt thatI do not fuzz over small details. Such as locos without coupling rods.

nd really I would welcome any cooperation on getting things done, no matter how small.

Okey, you are the new loco chief. What I can do to help you?

My skills have some what improved, but I am far from game component creator. At least I have learnt to add some grunge and effect to the texture to make those more lively. Above wagon is still in a "clean" state. I have made a few models for Simcity 4, but that game doesn't not required 3D modelling skills, as the game does not use 3D models as such, but creates an image from the render. So in modelling I don't have to worry about the poly count and I can add details in clumsy way.

As I calling card, I attach few picture of models I have do to show my skill level.

I think you have wagon project well under control, so here I can offer little. I want to do a set of British style wagons one day, but that will not help your current project. I did some hexediting back then, but it was really pain, so today I want avoid it as much as I can. That is why my locos were missing rods etc, because I got frustrated with hexing. Also, I will leave loco balancing to better people than me. Yes, my loco "balancing" was made just by comparing it to next loco and methods were more random rather than scientific.

So think I could do either:
1. One or two industry building model to new cargoes / industries. Milo had to use warehouse model for most of new industries and it was a placeholder idea until something better could be done. I think it has been an annoyance to many. I have read that buildings have a footprint issue, but other than that a new building model should not be too taxing. Perhaps I could take a footprint of existing building and base a new model to that.

or
2. I could texture one of your new loco models. Such as Russian S. Assuming I am up to your standards. I have never done a UV map before. I don't think it difficult, just tedious.

[Gumboots]

I have wanted to do bad engines too. Such as this Vittorio. A bad engine in a normal map, but perhaps in special conditions, it could be useful. Like a good grade climber.

Well the Vittorio was designed for heavy grades, but AFAIK it wasn't a bad engine as such. There's not a lot of information available, but the information that is available doesn't mention any problems with it.

Anyway, I am into UK locos. Probably can be seen from the work I have done. So, I like of what you have shown about your projects. School Class is one of my favourite.

UK locos are usually so clean, which makes them easier to model and skin, and its easier to keep the poly count down.

The Schools is one of my favourites too, but I got stuck on that one because it's more complex than it appears at first. It got to a point where I was having to rethink the entire thing to get the poly count reasonable. The other problem with it is that there's not really a use for it. UK express is already adequately covered for that period. A more useful addition would be the Peppercorn A1 for post-WW2 and (as Tornado) the 21st century. That ones turns out to be fairly simple to model, and skinning shouldn't be too bad either.
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Back to reality wake up call. Of course my solution to those valves would be to make them statistic. You have probably learnt thatI do not fuzz over small details. Such as locos without coupling rods.

I have thought about walking beam engines a little bit, and you could fudge the drivetrain so it wouldn't have to be completely static.

Okey, you are the new loco chief. What I can do to help you?

A better question is what are you interested in doing? If it aint interesting it will be hard to keep motivation levels up.

My skills have some what improved, but I am far from game component creator. At least I have learnt to add some grunge and effect to the texture to make those more lively.

I'm still learning too. I don't regard myself as an expert at this stuff yet. Getting better though.

I think you have wagon project well under control, so here I can offer little. I want to do a set of British style wagons one day, but that will not help your current project. I did some hexediting back then, but it was really pain, so today I want avoid it as much as I can. That is why my locos were missing rods etc, because I got frustrated with hexing.

Well honestly: I'd love some help with the wagon project, if you could stand doing it.

1. One or two industry building model to new cargoes / industries. Milo had to use warehouse model for most of new industries and it was a placeholder idea until something better could be done. I think it has been an annoyance to many. I have read that buildings have a footprint issue, but other than that a new building model should not be too taxing. Perhaps I could take a footprint of existing building and base a new model to that.

Footprints are a bit of a mystery. Milo might have known how they are coded, but none of his notes gave the rest of us any useful clues. Footprints are mentioned a couple of times, but that's all. So for now we're stuck with using footprints from existing buildings and working within those limits. But of course you can still completely change the entire building mesh and skin if you want to.

2. I could texture one of your new loco models. Such as Russian S. Assuming I am up to your standards. I have never done a UV map before. I don't think it difficult, just tedious.

Yup, you're right about UV mapping. And quite honestly, my work isn't up to my standards. In other words, after a while I can always see ways of making it better. So don't worry about my standards. They're impossible anyway. Plus as long as the basic mesh and UV mapping is good, it's easy enough to change skins later.

I have figured out a few useful things. Like for wheels it's handy to lay out the UV's so that the centres and edges are at even numbers of pixels. The game switches textures to the B skin at pretty close range, so if wheel pixels aren't set to handle clean division by 2 then they will start going eggy while you're still close enough to see it. Heaps of the default models have this problem, and it's so obvious that they really should have had more sense. I try to set them up so they will split evenly down to at least the C skin. That way by the time they turn to crap you won't notice.

The same idea can apply to other components too, depending on how obvious they are and how the graphics are done.

For locomotive and cargo car scale, I've been doing everything to a scale of one modelling unit (ie: RT3, Blender or 3DS base unit) to 10 inches. This seems to be the scale that was intended, based on track dimensions and a range of model dimensions. Default models vary a bit for scale, but if all custom stuff is done as 1 unit = 10 inches then it will all play well together. It's also easy on the brain. Even ok if you have to start with metric plans, since you could use 1 base unit = 250 mm and it would be close enough that nobody would worry (10 inches = 254 mm, so only a 1.6% difference).

I've also like setting up the UV's so that most of those are at a consistent scale too. The Pennsy H3 was done at 20px/inch. It was the first one I've done like that, and it makes things a lot easier IMO. It means you can use the same layer styles across different components and they will look consistent. It also means setting up UV's accurately is a lot easier, since Blender sometimes gets things out of whack when unwrapped. For some special components that rely on alpha a lot (drivewheel spokes, etc) I used a larger scale just to make them less jaggy.

[bombardiere]

The Schools is one of my favourites too, but I got stuck on that one because it's more complex than it appears at first. It got to a point where I was having to rethink the entire thing to get the poly count reasonable. The other problem with it is that there's not really a use for it. UK express is already adequately covered for that period. A more useful addition would be the Peppercorn A1 for post-WW2 and (as Tornado) the 21st century. That ones turns out to be fairly simple to model, and skinning shouldn't be too bad either.
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True. I didn't want to state it in previous post, but School is not very useful game engine at that time. RRT3 is not suited for that kind of stopping commuter / local passenger traffic for which the Schools were designed. However, I still hope you will finish that one. I would love to have it in my game. I think it could tolerate slightly higher polycount as it probably will never be numerous in the game.

A better question is what are you interested in doing? If it aint interesting it will be hard to keep motivation levels up.

True, but I also believe that one needs to set up realistic goals. Hey, my dream is make my own British Railway Tycoon, but it is not going to happen tomorrow. I have seen it in this forum and more frequently in the Simcity forums (and I think applies to all kinds of games and projects), that some one drops in with his/hers grandiose project plan and wants everyone to join in or achieve it with flicker of a switch. And then quickly dissapears when the reality hits in. It is part of motivation to carry on yes, but also that initial goals are achievable.

That is why I asked that if I can do something for you. I need a small project to get started and orientated. I feel that this all is new to me and I need to learn and re-learn so much.

Well honestly: I'd love some help with the wagon project, if you could stand doing it.

Allrighty. That topic is 27 pages long, so I have only skimmed it so far. So what are immediate needs? I am willing to do international locos, but wagons and coaches will be British ones. I need to limit my goals. Would there be a wagon type which would be useful to you? I feel that freight is important project as it changes the balance in to right direction.

For locomotive and cargo car scale, I've been doing everything to a scale of one modelling unit (ie: RT3, Blender or 3DS base unit) to 10 inches

Thank you for these notes. Info you gave is useful to me. Incidentally I just found an old note of mine, that I had estimated that 1 metre would be about 4 tiles in the Blender. I work with the metric system, makes modelling so much easier. Even when I had been making Georgian townhouses into Simcity 4, I did convert the feet into metres. Simplifiers it to me and no-one is going to notice that the doorway as actually 1 metre wide rather than 3 feet.

I am interested to learn more about LODs and how to make wheels etc to move. Do you use your own components or use Poptops moving parts? However, please don't give a detailed answers just yet. I am not yet in position to dig deeper into this yet. I need to learn all this by small steps. However I think my first task is to try and see if I can do it myself. To put a model and some short of a skin into the game.

[RulerofRails]

Just going to chime in here about locos in general. I think that it's a good intention to try to make ones that are perceived as useful to the game. A better definition of this would be if there are larger periods of time before the next new express or freight loco is introduced (as Gumboots did with the Pennsy H3). It's true that the game has to generalize a lot of things and therefore the more prolific locos are probably most useful, albeit far less interesting.

But in saying this I would also encourage you not to feel too constricted to make certain types. In the end, extra locos give choice especially for the map maker. Any loco, Schools, Suburban Tank Double, etc. can be featured more prominently in a map if the map maker desires. Examples of maps that do this are probably mainly those that use the Shay. In my testing install at the moment I have 3 locos that come available in 1936: NW Y6, A Class and Challenger. Two are dedicated freight: Y6 and Challenger. Obviously, you will tend to favor one over the other no matter how closely they are tuned.

[Gumboots]

Allrighty. That topic is 27 pages long, so I have only skimmed it so far. So what are immediate needs? I am willing to do international locos, but wagons and coaches will be British ones. I need to limit my goals. Would there be a wagon type which would be useful to you? I feel that freight is important project as it changes the balance in to right direction.

Hmm. This is going to be fun.

I've mainly been using US freight as a basis for the new default cars. This is largely because it has been easier to get information on US freight, and because the default cars are based (albeit loosely) on US freight. UK freight is a special case, due to the extremely restricted loading gauge over much of the UK. Some lines in the UK can't even take a single hi-cube container on a standard flat car. European and Australian loading gauge is more or less in between UK and US. So if you restrict RT3 models to UK freight then it will be wrong for everywhere else.

Of course you can argue that for just about any set of cargo cars, but for a default set we have to start somewhere. I think basing them on US practice makes sense. Apart from anything else it lets us have double-stack containers from the late 20th century onwards, which people like, and which are also becoming more common outside the US. We have some route availability for double-stack in Australia and are planning more. Same goes for Europe, and parts of Asia.

The other point is that people like longer trains. This means bigger cargo cars, or alternatively double and triple cars to get more length with shorter units. Doing triples is easy enough (have done some already) but bumps the poly count quite a bit. So that's another argument in favour of compromising with US cars for the default set.

And really, cargo cars are much easier than locomotives. If you want something simple to start with, cargo cars would be a good choice.

I am interested to learn more about LODs and how to make wheels etc to move. Do you use your own components or use Poptops moving parts? However, please don't give a detailed answers just yet. I am not yet in position to dig deeper into this yet. I need to learn all this by small steps. However I think my first task is to try and see if I can do it myself. To put a model and some short of a skin into the game.

I will steal bits of an existing PopTop skin sometimes, if it will do the job without requiring a lot of fixing. For the mesh and 3dp files I use my own components. It's just as easy as using PopTop parts. Sometimes it's even easier, because the PopTop ones are often screwed and making new ones can be less work than fixing the existing ones.

Wheels are easy. The 3dp files for wheels just contain the axle position and the basic square or triangle mesh for the wheel faces. As long as you put the axle centre in the middle of the mesh it will work.

There are a couple of minor traps though. It's RT3. There have to be traps. Fortunately these traps are easy to avoid. They aren't relevant to basic wheels, like on cargo cars or tenders. They only come into play when you want to do trickier stuff.

Other moving parts are a piece of cake too. They're as easy as wheels. The only reason they were hard back in the do-everything-via-hex days was because they aren't basic squares like most wheels, so figuring out the hex was harder. With a modelling app and an export script to do the hex for you, connecting rods and pistons are not difficult as long as you know a couple of basic principles.

[bombardiere]

Wohoo!!! Success! Well short of anyway. That tiny toy train is my attempt to import asset from other game. It is a Train Fever BR 218 diesel engine model. I just wanted to use existing model to see how easy it is import to new model and texture. And it turns out that it is very easy indeed. I only had a one false attempt and so far I have even needed to touch HexEditor.

Ok I see see too many possibilities.

've mainly been using US freight as a basis for the new default cars. This is largely because it has been easier to get information on US freight, and because the default cars are based (albeit loosely) on US freight.

Agreed. Overall game looks speaks for US style stock. That is why I have spoken about US locos too. As the game is US oriented it makes sense to me to look that section first and then move on to the rest of world.

And really, cargo cars are much easier than locomotives. If you want something simple to start with, cargo cars would be a good choice.

I can't yet give a definite commitment but I warming up. I see that you have made several common wagons, so what you have still to do? I could perhaps take a cargo type that is low on your to do list. Perhaps a 1.06 cargo. If you could name cargoes that need their own wagons and I could see what inspiration will bring. I see that you have divide wagon into 8 time periods. It means double the models needed, but that will not be a big issue. Hardest thing is to match your/PopTop style. Making new wagons to fit in the existing style.

So far I have not yet installed 1.06 patch. I am running the 1.05 Vanilla and playing the campaign to familiarise into the game and to see how it works and what is needed.

Gumboots, a big thank for all these tutorial you have written in this site. These has been very helpful for me to set things up. I have forgotten so much. For example I really needed your tutorial on how to use Unpack/Pack command script. Until I realise that after I had set up Java path, I could double click the icon and not bother with the command prompt. (I think there has been a change in OS or Java, because I fairly certain that back on those double click would do nothing and we really needed to use command prompt.)

[Gumboots]

I can't yet give a definite commitment but I warming up. I see that you have made several common wagons, so what you have still to do? I could perhaps take a cargo type that is low on your to do list. Perhaps a 1.06 cargo. If you could name cargoes that need their own wagons and I could see what inspiration will bring. I see that you have divide wagon into 8 time periods. It means double the models needed, but that will not be a big issue. Hardest thing is to match your/PopTop style. Making new wagons to fit in the existing style.

I'll have a look at what I've got, but individual cargoes are only an issue on flatcars, because only flatcars need individual cargo models. The rest can be done with car categories (box, reefer, etc).

And the 8 time periods was an attempt to get away from the "long period of nothing followed by massive impact" of the default 4 periods, with doubling of weight at each change. It does turn out to be a bit of a nuisance for modelling but it should make for better gameplay.
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Gumboots, a big thank for all these tutorial you have written in this site. These has been very helpful for me to set things up. I have forgotten so much. For example I really needed your tutorial on how to use Unpack/Pack command script. Until I realise that after I had set up Java path, I could double click the icon and not bother with the command prompt. (I think there has been a change in OS or Java, because I fairly certain that back on those double click would do nothing and we really needed to use command prompt.)

I had to figure lots of things out by myself, so I was trying to document them to make it easier for anyone who came after, and so I could look stuff up again myself if I needed to. And it took me yonks to figure out I could just double click that icon too.

[Gumboots]

Tell ya what: if you would be prepared to deal with the flatcar cargoes, that would be great.

[bombardiere]

Tell ya what: if you would be prepared to deal with the flatcar cargoes, that would be great.

Sure. I could try to do weapons first. It may not be the easiest to model, but I think that the game had at least two kinds of cannons, which could be used as such. And the game has models and texture for Sopwith Camel biplane and Tiger tank. Those are probably too big to be on a flatcar, but could give inspiration.

You have made flatcars for 8 periods?

bombardiere wrote: ↑
Sun Aug 27, 2017 5:38 pm
I can't yet give a definite commitment but I warming up. I see that you have made several common wagons, so what you have still to do? I could perhaps take a cargo type that is low on your to do list. Perhaps a 1.06 cargo. If you could name cargoes that need their own wagons and I could see what inspiration will bring. I see that you have divide wagon into 8 time periods. It means double the models needed, but that will not be a big issue. Hardest thing is to match your/PopTop style. Making new wagons to fit in the existing style.

I'll have a look at what I've got, but individual cargoes are only an issue on flatcars, because only flatcars need individual cargo models. The rest can be done with car categories (box, reefer, etc).

Sorry, i wrote badly. i meant I could do a wagon. Not only a cargo. But I guess a cargo is a good place to start as any. If I have skills and interest I could move on to a wagon.

I keep asking all these questions and wanting your input, because honestly I have forgotten even which type of wagons the game used. Or what cargoes were added in 1.06 and especially which of those are useful and which are waste of space. (Same as with my locos I guess. All the good American locomotives were made by WP&P. Rest are my monsters.)

And the 8 time periods was an attempt to get away from the "long period of nothing followed by massive impact" of the default 4 periods, with doubling of weight at each change. It does turn out to be a bit of a nuisance for modelling but it should make for better gameplay.

Only a long time testing will tell, but I think this is a good move. Poptop probably made 4 periods so that did not have to do so many models.

[Gumboots]

Tell ya what: if you would be prepared to deal with the flatcar cargoes, that would be great.

Sure. I could try to do weapons first. It may not be the easiest to model, but I think that the game had at least two kinds of cannons, which could be used as such. And the game has models and texture for Sopwith Camel biplane and Tiger tank. Those are probably too big to be on a flatcar, but could give inspiration.

Yes, there are two sorts of guns, but I was thinking of shipping Weapons and Ammunition in custom military boxcars. A lot easier that way, and weapons come in all shapes and sizes. There's no reason you can't have a boxcar full of Stingers and RPG's. It's still a load of weapons.

The Tiger is too high-poly for a basic cargo model. You'd have to rebuild it anyway if you wanted to use it. Dunno about the Camel, but it sure wouldn't fit with its wings on.

You have made flatcars for 8 periods?

Yes, using default PopTop skins (mostly) and customised mesh. But I'm now wondering if I should cut it down to 7 eras. Using 7 eras instead of 8 would save a fair amount of work with models and skins and hex files, and would still give a better progression than the default 4 eras. The weight changes would be 1.41x (square root of 2) at each era change, instead of the default 2x, and would be on a 30 year cycle instead of the default 50.

Sorry, i wrote badly. i meant I could do a wagon. Not only a cargo. But I guess a cargo is a good place to start as any. If I have skills and interest I could move on to a wagon.

Wagons aren't hard to do.

Or what cargoes were added in 1.06 and especially which of those are useful and which are waste of space.

I think it has to cover all 1.06 cargoes, just because there are so many 1.06 maps now. But there are only ten 1.06 cargoes, and most of them wouldn't need extra skinning and modelling.

[bombardiere]

Yes, there are two sorts of guns, but I was thinking of shipping Weapons and Ammunition in custom military boxcars. A lot easier that way, and weapons come in all shapes and sizes. There's no reason you can't have a boxcar full of Stingers and RPG's. It's still a load of weapons.

Yeah, I just read the post where you described that. Okey, that make sense, although I would love to see flat cars loaded with cannons and tanks.

Alright, you have been so busy past couple years and I am literally out of the breath in trying to capture it all. So please, you can assign a relatively simple project to me. Something that help your progress.

BTW, where is your new car planner file? I saw that you have removed some old versions, but I don't find the post where current file may be?

[Gumboots]

Yeah, I just read the post where you described that. Okey, that make sense, although I would love to see flat cars loaded with cannons and tanks.

Ok, you can make them then. Easy.

Alright, you have been so busy past couple years and I am literally out of the breath in trying to capture it all. So please, you can assign a relatively simple project to me. Something that help your progress.

BTW, where is your new car planner file? I saw that you have removed some old versions, but I don't find the post where current file may be?

Umm, yeah. Leave that with me for a few days. I have some thinking to do.

Tell ya what: what do you really want to make? Is there anything in particular that takes your fancy? Can be anything at all: buildings, cargo cars locomotives, flying geese, whatever.

Basically what I'm doing here is trying to suck you in instead of scaring you off.

[bombardiere]

Basically what I'm doing here is trying to suck you in instead of scaring you off.

No worries, I think I understand where you coming from. However, I feel that I should explain why I keep asking the same question on and on.

Sure, I would love to have a magic wand and make all kinds of locomotives, but I don't skills for that. Yet. So I am looking for a beginners project for three reasons:

1. It has been so long since I last played the that I feel lost. So much has happen since and you seems to be the driving force currently. So I feel that I better stick with your ideas initially, until I have got my orientation back. For example, if I want a tanks on a flat mod, I can do it later after I have regained my modding boots. I am quite happy with weapons in a box car idea, so I have nor problems go along with it. At least until I am ready to produce something else.

2. I want / need to learn. So I feel a simple project would be useful for me. However, I like to do useful project, small perhaps, but something that is useful to you. Most likely I need to ask a lot of questions and I feel that it is only fair that you get something out of it.

3. I want to help you even in a small way as a thank you for your work and dedication to the RRT3. I have been reading your posts and found many useful tutorial. And I think I still have some to discover yet. When I last visited here about couple years ago, I wasn't sure if blender script etc. would lead to anything worthwhile. I thought that it came too late for RRT3. However, I am now impressed what has been happen.

ell ya what: what do you really want to make? Is there anything in particular that takes your fancy? Can be anything at all: buildings, cargo cars locomotives, flying geese, whatever.

Bombardiere is not a synonymous to locomotive for no reason. But I need curb my enthusiasm so that I don't get overexcited. If would have that magic wand, I would wave it first at Black 5. For me 10.6 version is a monster. The Black 5 is an elegant loco and I feel that I created a Frankenstein. More so Black 5's boiler is same as Class 8F 2-8-0 UK connie freight (only fittings differ) and it is similar to Class 6P Jubilee 4-6-0 express., so with one project could relatively easily turn into three locos. ( I have dug out drawings.) UK wagons would be something I would consider too, but may be not for all periods. May be only Poptop's B and C.

I am currently playing 1.05 campaign and I will not install 1.06 or make mods before I finish. I want to get feel of the vanilla game.

[Gumboots]

If would have that magic wand, I would wave it first at Black 5. For me 10.6 version is a monster. The Black 5 is an elegant loco and I feel that I created a Frankenstein. More so Black 5's boiler is same as Class 8F 2-8-0 UK connie freight (only fittings differ) and it is similar to Class 6P Jubilee 4-6-0 express., so with one project could relatively easily turn into three locos. ( I have dug out drawings.)

Ok, I have the basics of it set up already in Blender. And a few drawings for it as well, which I used as a guide. So if you want my files to get you started, when you're ready to tackle the Black 5, I'm totally fine with that. It's not one of my favourite locos anyway, so I'd be happy for you to do it.
.

.
And boilers are one of the easiest parts of any loco, so if you ever wanted to do a Jubilee it would be simple to make any necessary changes to the boiler.

Anyway, if you want to chip in with freight cars, how about reefers? They're an easy one. I had figured out the basics of a set, using mainly PopTop textures just to get things going, but with a couple of custom ones for the later eras. I can pack up the Blender files with some notes, then you can import them to 3DS and play around with them.

[bombardiere]

Oh. So you have a Black 5 too. I should have guessed.

Ok, reefer it is.

I can also take Black 5 and rip it apart for learning. I like to learn by breaking things. "Manual, who needs manual."

First question. I think I saw in one post that you have written or wanted write a blender for N00b tutorial, but I can't find it anymore. Do you have it or can you tell me how I could get textures to the Blender? In 3DS MAX it is pretty much default and because have used it for some time, I am more comfortable with 3DS MAX UI than Blenders.

Actually, my loco knowledge is not that deep. That explains the odd choices in 1.06. However back then, ten years ago, Black 5 was a choice of my interest. I even have a book, which I found in a second hand bookshop for few Euros. So it would be a good engine for to start with. Depending of time and enthusiasm, I think that I could look at 1.06 buildings and diesel and electric locos. I gather that these do not interest you that much?