Strategy ideas for low carbon economy.

[Gumboots]

Continued from here.

Anyway, I was idly considering how strategy could be approached for such a scenario. The big thing for me is how do I get to run lots of steam trains in a low carbon economy?

Now there you have a real problem. If steamers were considered to be polluters shortly after 1900 when electrics started to be used in large cities, what about now? Only thing I can think of is if oil runs out in the future making them unavoidable.

Have had some initial thoughts. First one is that you'd probably either have to disable coal completely, or tax it heavily, or possibly start with tax and then phase it out. That's not necessarily going to stop steamers, since they only need a source of heat and that doesn't need to be coal. Oil is another alternative. LPG or methane are others. Even hydrogen would work in theory.* The problem with the last three is getting them into the RT3 economy (which you can't do, AFAIK).

Really, for suburban areas that have short distances and a high revenue base, electric makes the most sense. Non-electric only really makes sense for long hauls where the infrastructure cost of electric gets too high.

The pollution problem is the early 1900's was mainly related to unburned soot, which isn't going to be a problem with modernised steamers. Porta had that sorted years ago, even for coal, with his vapourising firebox idea.

One nifty possibility would be introducing the use of silanes - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silanes - and - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_ ... neutrality

A power unit based on advanced steam technology burning fossil fuel will inevitably emit carbon dioxide, a long-lasting greenhouse gas. However, significant reductions, compared to other combustion technologies, of other pollutants such as CO and NOx are achievable by steam technology, which does not involve explosive combustion, without the need for add-ons such as filters etc. or special preparation of fuel.

If renewable fuel such as wood or other biofuel is used then the system could be carbon neutral. The use of biofuel remains controversial; however, liquid biofuels are easier to manufacture for steam plant than for diesels as they do not demand the stringent fuel standards required to protect diesel injectors.

It has been proposed that, given sufficient solar energy, silicon might be refined for use as a coal replacement for this type of engine.

This is interesting because it could be done by using the otherwise useless "crystals" cargo to represent silicon. Not currently sure how you would change those into burnable silanes, but offhand a warehouse seems like it would work.

Obviously you'd want to look at the electrical power generation side of things too. Coal-fired plants would have to be taxed or phased out. Nuclear would work, as long as the area was geologically stable. From memory the default files include .3dp and .dds for a whacking great wind turbine, but I'm not sure how it could be used. I suppose solar and hydro models are feasible too, as custom buildings or something.

*ETA: I suppose some form of biofuel is a possibility too. Growing crops for it is not really a good idea on a large scale, but it can be synthesised from some types of algae and/or bacterial cultures.

I've been reading up on silane chemistry too. Interesting stuff.

[RulerofRails]

Silane does sound interesting. When I get time I will read up on it. Nice start!

This is interesting because it could be done by using the otherwise useless "crystals" cargo to represent silicon. Not currently sure how you would change those into burnable silanes, but offhand a warehouse seems like it would work.

Silanes would be most like chemicals I suppose, but then there is the substitution problem that the rest of the uses for Chemicals would become silly. Maybe that wouldn't matter when Fertilizer Factories and Ammo Plants are turned off as Chemicals isn't a major cargo. The challenge I see is how to arrive at a robust way to test production or consumption of Chemicals at warehouses for the goals or for engine fuel costs.

There is currently a Windmill (from the DutchAtlantis campaign scenario) that is only placeable by hand in the editor mode. Are you talking about this or is there another one hidden somewhere? If a group of these were pre-placed in a special territory, access rights could be a test as a goal to make them active. A warehouse seems good also, but what would it be realistic for it to produce?

Waste could feature in this type of scenario also. The Recycling Plant works, but suffers from multiple output possibilities from the same input. So a warehouse simulation may be better.

[Wolverine@MSU]

These ideas might considered in developing new cargoes for the "reworked" version (1.6.1 or 1.7, whatever you want to call it). Haven't seen much activity on this project in a while though.

[Gumboots]

Silanes are looking interesting but at the moment I have doubts as to feasibility. Their chemical characteristics are a little unusual, mainly their stability. Mind you, it's possible that with a bit of development additives could be used to stabilise the silanes.

The other thing is making them en masse. I'd want to see some figures/estimates/whatever on production methods and costs. I'm not interested in throwing in stuff that is a lame attempt to be "futuristic". I'd only add things that I thought were likely to be reasonable options, given plausible technological improvement.

Assuming, for the sake of argument at the moment, that silanes do get used, the thing is you can't make silanes out of silicon without other chemical precursors. So really Crystals + Chemicals = Something That Makes Your Train Go would be best, if possible. It might be feasible to make a "sink" for the output so that in practice it just gets digested at point of production but yeah, testing for production is a bit tricky. Not sure how to approach that at the moment. I suppose you might be able to use a haulage goal. Crystals + Chemicals to a territory, for instance, with a deduction for Crystals and Chemicals out to prevent bait and switch.

Biodiesel is another option, produced not from crops or oil but from algae and/or bacteria vats. That could be a warehouse product if Fertiliser was given to "fertilise" the algae and bacteria. Fertiliser in, Diesel out.

Then there's methane. Alkanes aren't too bad since they get a lot of their energy from burning the incorporated hydrogen. Coal burns a lot more carbon for the same energy output. Methane is fairly easy to generate in large quantities, even from carbon-neutral sources. For instance, landfills often produce heaps of the stuff, and burning it is a lot better than letting it loose in the atmosphere (methane has a far greater effect than carbon dioxide). Storage and transportation isn't that big a deal either. So, if a way can be devised to make use of "methane" within the limits of the game, that could be useful.

Windmill: yeah that was the one I was thinking of. It might be possible to do something with it. Could always nick the model for it (just call the .3dp and .dss files) and add a suitable .bty or whatever, to turn it into a buildable generator. Have a territory restriction since you can't just plonk them anywhere in reality anyway. It would also be possible to make a solar and/or hydro generator. You could even have geothermal, depending on where the scenario is set. Could be fun.

I still think some nuclear for base load generation is likely to be an inclusion.

Really, there is a lot of scope for an unusual and yet still feasible (in technological terms) economy that isn't just like the usual scenarios.

Apart from the base economy there are other factors that could be built in. Just as an off the cuff example: lumber prices. The Ponderosa pine forests in the southern US are predicted to be extinct by the middle of the century, based on a continuation of current trends in diminishing coverage. So, fewer millable trees = higher lumber prices. Effects on agriculture are possible too.

[RulerofRails]

These ideas might considered in developing new cargoes for the "reworked" version (1.6.1 or 1.7, whatever you want to call it). Haven't seen much activity on this project in a while though.

True. I said this before, but what to do with the cement chain was a hang-up that wasn't resolved. No solution seems ideal. Since it was in RtII and one of the wished for features of 1.06, no one has had the confidence to drop it. If you have some more ideas, such as usable cargoes please post them over on that long thread. I also wish this project could gain some momentum again.

I was thinking about silanes and if there was a way to test for crashes (I don't see one) a company could be fined for pollution. There are many technologies that could be used in the future. As technology becomes more advanced it becomes more precise. I don't think we can accurately deduce the long term effectiveness of many of these technologies until they are used in a large scale. A Rt3 game may be best to focus on one or two of these potential technologies instead of going for realism where I am sure a multitude of technologies would be available.

I don't know if you want to go there, but many of the industrial production techniques aren't low carbon or environmentally friendly. Often the "clean" methods require lots more energy than the dirty ones, so a requirement to make power to bring factories up to 100% production may be good (maybe those windmills?). You mentioned lumber price increases. The proverbial bug that comes when adjusting pricing makes doing this by event finicky. I have seen some small adjustments that work, so there must be a secret to unlock this somewhere. If this was more of a mod, base price adjustment would be the way to go, but industry demands and recipes may have to be adjusted as well. Higher prices lend themselves to greater possible profits, and make exploiting price differences more tempting.

There is a Bio-Diesel plant in TrainMaster that is a reskinned chemical factory. It uses corn and hemp to make diesel and pulpwood. Because the game doesn't allow two outputs in the same chain, this is a case of multiple chains that compete under the same roof. It works to a degree, but it could be nicked and modified for a small mod. Making bio-fuel from algae seems good to me also. Fertilizer to diesel may work, but where would fertilizer come from? Chemicals? I am not an expert on algae, but isn't the food for algae CO2? I am thinking that, ideally, fertilizer should give a boost effect instead of being the main input. But how would CO2 be represented in the game?

[Gumboots]

I don't think we can accurately deduce the long term effectiveness of many of these technologies until they are used in a large scale. A Rt3 game may be best to focus on one or two of these potential technologies instead of going for realism where I am sure a multitude of technologies would be available.

Sure. At the moment I'm just kicking around ideas for possible inclusions. I still wouldn't want to include any technology I regarded as far-fetched. For example, although fusion reactors would be great, the current state of research on them gives no indication that they are likely to be viable this century. On that basis, I'd rule them out. Personally, I'd only rule in things that are likely to work within a decade or two, without re-writing the laws of physics.

I don't know if you want to go there, but many of the industrial production techniques aren't low carbon or environmentally friendly. Often the "clean" methods require lots more energy than the dirty ones, so a requirement to make power to bring factories up to 100% production may be good (maybe those windmills?).

Sounds like a plan. Talking of power generation, I read something recently about new prototype methods for storage, which seemed promising. Will see if I can find it again.* It involved using salts as a heat bank so that solar farms could store power in the form of heat, without requiring huge banks of batteries. The idea is to make solar more useful for base load generation (ie: 24/7 availability). In principle it could work for wind turbines too.

*ETA: Found it. Giant solar farm uses molten salt to keep power coming

There is a Bio-Diesel plant in TrainMaster that is a reskinned chemical factory. It uses corn and hemp to make diesel and pulpwood. Because the game doesn't allow two outputs in the same chain, this is a case of multiple chains that compete under the same roof. It works to a degree, but it could be nicked and modified for a small mod. Making bio-fuel from algae seems good to me also. Fertilizer to diesel may work, but where would fertilizer come from? Chemicals? I am not an expert on algae, but isn't the food for algae CO2? I am thinking that, ideally, fertilizer should give a boost effect instead of being the main input. But how would CO2 be represented in the game?

Yeah you're right about algae, but I think they need other nutrients as well. I don't think they will grow properly on just CO2 and sunshine (may be wrong - should check). Was also thinking of bacteria. There has been some work on using them to make various products.

CO2 would have to be done by proxy measures, even if you wanted to represent it at all. So offhand I think you'd have to have events that check for production or consumption of something the game can handle, then assign benefits or penalties on that basis. There's probably quite a bit of scope there for interesting events that trade off various options, including knock on effects.

[RulerofRails]

I don't have much time for RT3 coming up, but I will post a little. Interesting article about molten salt. That brings the question of what could represent a solar array in the game? To crudely represent one it may be possible to use one of WP&Ps station amenities such as the hopper yard or ice platform. Of course a little work and a re-skin of this or something else would be much better.

I remembered that Nedfumpkin posted that he tried unsuccessfully to get the windmill to generate power for TM. Seems the power plants must get special treatment by the game. If using warehouses I like the idea of either having the warehouse owned by another company where profits and LIP can be tested, or having the player own it (would be good if the game could test LIP per territory, I didn't see this happen in a test I did, maybe I am missing something though?). LIP of a warehouse could be a good way to test for best possible utilization. From what I understand to make the haulage tests bullet-proof requires two territories per location and 1.06. Even then, if you can manage to get the cargo to migrate over-land this breaks.

[Gumboots]

Is it possible to make the windmill buildable? If so, it may be possible to use it to "generate" credit of one sort or another via scripting, as a proxy for game-gigawatts.

[RulerofRails]

Currently, I can only build the Windmill in the editor. There must be some way the game determines which industries are available in the list where you choose which buildings a player can build. I am sure Ned knows. Here is a post a search turned up where he says that the Windmill CAN produce power. That's great I don't know what I remember reading, but this is good news. I don't know why he didn't include it in TM then? Who knows what he is up to these days, maybe somebody is in touch with him and can ask him?

Edited again to fix the link. I discovered that the addition of forward slash (/) is the difference between going to the actual post or the top of the page.

[Gumboots]

In principle you could simply take the windmill model and use it as a replacement for any other model (for instance, the standard power plant). Then you could change the input from coal to none, and just have the thing producing power. It's essentially just a re-skin and an input change. This may be the best way to tackle it, depending on the details of the scenario. If you want to set the scenario in a timeframe where coal stations are already phased out, this would be a good way to do it. You could have some custom files for the power station that change it into the windmill, applicable to that scenario only.

[Gumboots]

Hey here's an interesting idea for low-carbon steam locos: powdered metal fuels.

Very high energy density, and potentially infinitely recyclable. Apparently it's more suitable for external combustion engines than for internal combustion, which suits steam locos perfectly. Could be ideal for long distance haulage without pollution.

[Gumboots]

Been thinking about this again after reading the recent Australian Electricity Market Operator report (2022 ISP). Cola is like to be gone, entirely, in about a decade from now. Diesel (oil) generation is negligible, and is not likely to increase. 90% or so of the generation will be wind, solar and hydro, with the rest being gas (primarily for backup in unusual circumstances). Other backup will obviously be batteries (which also provide better frequency control than old "baseload" plants) and pumped hydro.

Other countries are following similar pathways too. IOW, RT3's electric plants are irrelevant dinosaurs for 21st century scenarios. Worth thinking about.

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There's another bit of research recently, which is also interesting: Biosynthesis of polycyclopropanated high energy biofuels

• Rocketry, aviation, and shipping require hard-to-replace, energy-dense fossil fuels
• Cylopropanated fuels are energy dense, but their synthesis is challenging
• We produced polycyclopropanated (POP) fuels using a bacterial host
• The POP biofuels can have higher energy density than current aerospace fuels

Unlike conventional biofuels, these don't rely processing food crops into fuel. The relevant compounds are synthesised directly by common bacteria.

We produced polycyclopropanated fatty acid methyl ester (POP-FAME) fuels in bacteria. The POP-FAMEs can have energy densities of more than 50 MJ/L, which is larger than the energy of the most widely used rocket and aviation fuels. Although the next step is to scale up their production until the process is commercially viable, the availability of a biobased production method opens the possibility to replace fossil fuels in a very constrained sector.

This one is looking like it could be useful. There's also the possibility of using ammonia for energy storage/shipping. The short version is that mid-21st century power generation and fuels are not going to look anything like the situation in the mid-20th century.