Balance and realism issues with RT3 v1.06 locomotives

[Lirio]

Okay, it didn't take that long to get everything sorted out. Here's Beta 1 of Lirio's RT3 v1.06 Loco Update patch. Now I just need some brave and intrepid souls to give it a whirl and tell me what they think. I documented every single change I made in both the readme file and in a chart of the locomotives in the game, or at least I tried to. The chart should be useful for comparing the performance of the various engine types. I strongly suggest installing my update into a fresh install of 1.06 before testing it out, as that will insure that if anything goes wrong we know the problem is with my update, and not with the update conflicting with something else.

I really wish I could have at least uploaded this before dropping off the face of these forums, then I'd have months worth of feedback already. I could have easily done it, but my life was kind of a wreck at the time and I had other things on my mind. Anyhow, here it is for those who've waited and are still interested. I will probably continue to improve it later, but for now I just want people to give it a shot as it is.

[thietavu]

Thanks, Lirio! Can't wait to test this with my Great China 4 map! ;)

[AdmiralHalsey]

Making Railroad Tycoon 4 would be a far better use of the money.

Well, those things could be combined? :) I can't really tell how AMAZED I've been these years (!) at RRT3 while developing my silly, insanely big and complex "Great China 4" simulation on RRT3 TrainMaster edition... Over 230 cities, over a million trees, over 600 trains easily running, etc etc have revealed to me the greatness of the core AI engine! As result, my East Asia truly "lives" - everything seems realistic, and it really feels like one is managing a huge railroad empire where things live and change constantly. Industries come and disappear, and seem to make sense. Of course, the graphics could be improved, but even as they are now, I find it kind of thrilling to drive through the endless high plateaus of Tibet on some powerful steam engine on its way to Lhasa, seeing the Himalayan mountains in the distance... Or the jungles of Myanmar. Or the fields of Bangladesh. And so on... I never grow tired of finding new ways to build routes to tricky places, or to develop industry in far-away places. :)

So, I wouldn't change the basic concept much, or at all! Just improvements here and there, optimizations for modern hardware, even larger (!) maps (yes, I'd definitely build the Trans-Siberian Railway scenario! ;) ), ... The danger is, you see, that RRT4 would become something entirely different again. Perhaps not a "simulation" anymore, but a simpler, faster, more streamlined, prettier thing the way Civilization 5 was (in my opinion) partly destroyed compared to Civ 4. Unfortunately for players like me, very detailed, complex, time-consuming simulations are out of fashion these days. Maybe people have lives these days? ;)

I was wondering if you might be willing to make a non-Trainmaster version of that scenario. I tried installing Trainmaster once and it kinda nearly killed RRT3 on my computer. It took me 3 months to fix it.

[AdmiralHalsey]

Okay, it didn't take that long to get everything sorted out. Here's Beta 1 of Lirio's RT3 v1.06 Loco Update patch. Now I just need some brave and intrepid souls to give it a whirl and tell me what they think. I documented every single change I made in both the readme file and in a chart of the locomotives in the game, or at least I tried to. The chart should be useful for comparing the performance of the various engine types. I strongly suggest installing my update into a fresh install of 1.06 before testing it out, as that will insure that if anything goes wrong we know the problem is with my update, and not with the update conflicting with something else.

I really wish I could have at least uploaded this before dropping off the face of these forums, then I'd have months worth of feedback already. I could have easily done it, but my life was kind of a wreck at the time and I had other things on my mind. Anyhow, here it is for those who've waited and are still interested. I will probably continue to improve it later, but for now I just want people to give it a shot as it is.

Will test it out ASAP.


P.S. Yes I know this is a double post and i'm sorry.

[AdmiralHalsey]

Well i've found a problem. Some of the engines you added don't have a NA, E or W classification on them. (Yes I know this is makes me a triple poster but this is a fairly decent sized problem and I thought it should be brought to attention ASAP.)

[Hawk]

You do realize that you can edit any post you've made if you want to add something to it, don't you? Just click the 'Edit' button in your post.

Edit.jpg (11.42 KiB) Viewed 6979 times

Aside from that, posting more than once in a thread is fine, but it is easier to follow if you edit a post if you want to continue the thought in that particular post.
If it's a new thought on that topic, a new post is fine. No need to apologize for posting more than once in a day in a particular thread.

[AdmiralHalsey]

You do realize that you can edit any post you've made if you want to add something to it, don't you? Just click the 'Edit' button in your post.

Edit.jpg

Aside from that, posting more than once in a thread is fine, but it is easier to follow if you edit a post if you want to continue the thought in that particular post.
If it's a new thought on that topic, a new post is fine. No need to apologize for posting more than once in a day in a particular thread.

Why didn't I think of that? (Thanks for the new Smiley Hawk.)

[Hawk]

Also we need a facepalm smiley ASAP.

We kind of have one. (which kind of represents DUH!).

---

Edit 1: OK! I just added one.

[Lirio]

Which engines are lacking a regional classification? It's easier for me to diagnose and fix problems if you are more specific AdmiralHalsey.

Also, note that you may need to manually enable the new engines in some scenarios. Sometimes the scenario will have "All NA/E/W" engines enabled, and in that case all engines tagged for the enabled region(s) will be available. Other times, however, a scenario will only have specific engines available, in which case if you need to add more you will need to enter the editor mode - I believe Shift+E does it - to manually enable them. Some scenarios make engines available via event, in which case my update may very well completely break them since I've altered the functionality and availability of a lot of what's available. For example, WP&P's Pashton Valley scenario works poorly under v1.06 and not at all under Beta 1 Update. This is why having multiple installs of the game is a good idea, especially in the modern day were storage space is plentiful. Personally I have the RT3 1.06 I play with, which has my personal mods as well as those of other people, and completely unmodified 1.06 and 1.05 installed.

[AdmiralHalsey]

Which engines are lacking a regional classification? It's easier for me to diagnose and fix problems if you are more specific AdmiralHalsey.

Also, note that you may need to manually enable the new engines in some scenarios. Sometimes the scenario will have "All NA/E/W" engines enabled, and in that case all engines tagged for the enabled region(s) will be available. Other times, however, a scenario will only have specific engines available, in which case if you need to add more you will need to enter the editor mode - I believe Shift+E does it - to manually enable them. Some scenarios make engines available via event, in which case my update may very well completely break them since I've altered the functionality and availability of a lot of what's available. For example, WP&P's Pashton Valley scenario works poorly under v1.06 and not at all under Beta 1 Update. This is why having multiple installs of the game is a good idea, especially in the modern day were storage space is plentiful. Personally I have the RT3 1.06 I play with, which has my personal mods as well as those of other people, and completely unmodified 1.06 and 1.05 installed.

First off after looking them over some of these may have been downloaded from another mod so if any of them aren't yours let me know. The engines are the Class 90, Class 87, Class 304. Class 42 Warship, Class 205, 2HAB (Class 414) and the Ivatt 800 hp (Class 15).

[Lirio]

Those are from the British Engines packs, which I did not include. I had been thinking about grabbing a couple of those and putting them with my mod, but could never decide which ones so I just let them be.

[AdmiralHalsey]

Those are from the British Engines packs, which I did not include. I had been thinking about grabbing a couple of those and putting them with my mod, but could never decide which ones so I just let them be.

That's what I was starting to think. The thing that kept me from being sure was the fact you did mention that you were thinking about doing something with the Ivatt and you never said you weren't. Thanks for clearing that up though.

[AdmiralHalsey]

I know this might sound crazy but you think you could do some work with the Orca? I know it's not a real engine but I think it's freaking awesome looking and would love for it to have more use then being a plot device and major help in the Orient Express campaign scenario.(Quick hint for that one. ALWAYS go for the Orca and upgrade any train hauling express cars to it ASAP. You'll never have to worry about the express speed requirements at all.)

[Gumboots]

You don't need the Orca to get the express speed. I've done it with Consolidations pulling 6 car consists. It's easy.

If you want a modified Orca you'll probably have to do it yourself, because just about everyone else hates the thing.

[AdmiralHalsey]

You don't need the Orca to get the express speed. I've done it with Consolidations pulling 6 car consists. It's easy.

If you want a modified Orca you'll probably have to do it yourself, because just about everyone else hates the thing.

I'm really the only one who likes it?

[Hawk]

because just about everyone else hates the thing.

I'm really the only one who likes it?

I never use it. I just don't like it. It's useless and silly, to me.

[AdmiralHalsey]

I'm really the only one who likes it?

I never use it. I just don't like it. It's useless and silly, to me.

Again really? I always thought for not being real it was quite interesting. I also always thought that if Jules Verne ever made a steam engine that's what it would look like.

[Gumboots]

Yes, really. The Orca was removed from 1.0.6 and TM because everybody hated it.

[AdmiralHalsey]

Yes, really. The Orca was removed from 1.0.6 and TM because everybody hated it.

Strange as it's still in 1.06 for me and is also in TM too. Still why all the hate for the Orca?

[Gumboots]

Odd. I thought it was removed. I seem to remember some talk about it being ditched.

The hate for it is because it's stupid, not period-correct, and so unreliable as to be almost useless. Really, it's just a cheat in the original context, except that you don't need to type in a standard cheat. You might as well have a rocket-powered loco that does a million miles an hour.