Balance and realism issues with RT3 v1.06 locomotives

[AdmiralHalsey]

Odd. I thought it was removed. I seem to remember some talk about it being ditched.

The hate for it is because it's stupid, not period-correct, and so unreliable as to be almost useless. Really, it's just a cheat in the original context, except that you don't need to type in a standard cheat. You might as well have a rocket-powered loco that does a million miles an hour.

I can understand the the dislike for it not being period correct but i've never had reliability problems with it and I never thought it was that stupid.

[Blackhawk]

I think removing it was on Ned's list of things to do in TM but I'm not certain. It might have managed to survive Ned's cut. I remember he was going to take a couple out to make space for potential new/different locomotives although that project seems to remain stalled.

[AdmiralHalsey]

Well I found a glitch. Even though the first Consolidation is supposed to become available in 1875 it is instead available earlier then that. I don't know exactly what year because the new engine popup didn't show up until the year it was supposed to become available.

[Gumboots]

Why 1875? Connies were invented a lot earlier than that.

ETA: Are you sure you weren't playing a scenario that is coded to allow ALL steam engines? That can override the usual availability dates.

[AdmiralHalsey]

Why 1875? Connies were invented a lot earlier than that.

ETA: Are you sure you weren't playing a scenario that is coded to allow ALL steam engines? That can override the usual availability dates.

I was playing the TransCon scenario so it wasn't that. Also no clue why Liro set the date to 1875 as I always thought the 1865 date was perfect for the Connie.

[Hawk]

According to the locomotive chart that came with the original 2-cd RT3 set, the Consolidation is available in the game from 1865-1912.

Consolidation.jpg (48.38 KiB) Viewed 6794 times

According to Wiki, the Consolidation was first built between 1864 and 1865, but was not used regularly in the US until around 1885.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2-8-0

[Gumboots]

Ok, so Lirio must have just decided to torture people by making the only decent 19th century loco harder to get.

[AdmiralHalsey]

Ok, so Lirio must have just decided to torture people by making the only decent 19th century loco harder to get.

With the update it's no longer the only decent 19th century loco anymore.(I'm going to admit that I used to use the Connies for everything once they became available but with the update i'm using at least 4 different types of locomotive depending on the situation.)

[Gumboots]

By the way, I did download that zip just out of curiosity*, but I can't get it to extract. I just get a list of 267 errors from WinRAR.


*I don't have 1.06 installed. Last time I tried to install 1.06 it didn't work properly, so I've only been playing 1.05.

[Hawk]

Which zip are you talking about? I downloaded 5 files in this thread, 2 zips and 3 rars (American 49 Mph.rar, Mogul 1869-1905.rar, Consolidation 1881-1920.rar, RT3 v1.06 Loco Update Beta 1.zip & altBerkshire.zip) and all 5 unpacked fine using 7zip. The file named Berkshire_bitz.zip found in this post - viewtopic.php?p=33482#p33482 - gives me an error message that says 'Unable to deliver file'.
I don't have WinRAR or WinZip installed so I can't test with them.

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Edit 1: OK! I guess it's the RT3 v1.06 Loco Update Beta 1.zip that you're talking about, since none of the others have that many files in them.

[Gumboots]

Ok, 7zip does it. WinRAR wont. Dunno why.

[AdmiralHalsey]

By the way, I did download that zip just out of curiosity*, but I can't get it to extract. I just get a list of 267 errors from WinRAR.


*I don't have 1.06 installed. Last time I tried to install 1.06 it didn't work properly, so I've only been playing 1.05.

Use 7Zip. That's what I use and it worked fine for me.

[Gumboots]

Read what I posted three hours before you.

[Lirio]

Well I found a glitch. Even though the first Consolidation is supposed to become available in 1875 it is instead available earlier then that. I don't know exactly what year because the new engine popup didn't show up until the year it was supposed to become available.

Thanks, I'll look into that. There are a couple other glitches I noticed that I've already fixed. For example the Standard 4-4-0 (originally the American) didn't have the same end year as the start year for the American 4-4-0, which it was supposed to since the latter represents the design evolving. It also replaces the Duke class which looks too British for North America.

With respect to the Orca, I removed it from my game and edited the Orient Express Campaign to give you a Mallard if you decide to pursue the Jules Verne quest. It usually doesn't turn up for me because I like to start in Zagreb rather than Vienna, and that tends to screw up the event sequence. Even when it does turn up I don't like to pursue it. Far more pleasing to finish the scenario without any super engines. I also edited it and the Italian scenario to only have European engines, since with v1.06 and my update you don't need the Consolidation for it.

Why 1875? Connies were invented a lot earlier than that.

I moved the Connie to 1875 because I felt it gave the locomotive progression in the game a more realistic feel. With 1.06 and my update the North America locomotive park doesn't suck as much and it's not as important to get it early. I also wanted the Mogul to have a least a decade to shine, and the 1865 to 1875 period seemed pretty good for it, especially because the 2-6-0 were far more common in that span than the 2-8-0. The Connie did not come into common use until well into the 1870s. I picked the year 1875 specifically because that was when the Pennsylvania Railroad made the Consolidation into its standard freight locomotive, and the one in the game is a Pennsy engine. I played the Transcontinental Campaign mission with the new set-up and the lack of Connies didn't seem to be a big deal, as the Moguls will pull their weight just fine.

Ok, 7zip does it. WinRAR wont. Dunno why.

It might the compression algorithm I set for in 7zip is unsupported by WinRAR. Sorry, I it didn't occur to me other programs might not have it.

[Hawk]

I installed your loco pack, the RT3 v1.06 Loco Update Beta 1.zip.
So far I like it. I've only played a map until 1921 with it.

Looking forward to the updates.

[thietavu]

Playing Great China 4 TM map with this locomotive pack. So far only very positive experience. For some reason, a very early mountain climber (can't remember the name - before Shay) crashes the game, but that's probably about my own peculiar setup.

[Sabratha]

Ok, I see very few people commented on the vanilla electric engines, so let me start with a train I had some personal experience with.

Shinkansen series 0.

First of all, the end date for it is 1996, while in fact these have been operated by JR West "Kodama" well into 2008.

Secondly, the in game reliability is just above average... which imho is abit low concerning the fact that the only serious accident in its history was caused by an earthquake (engine went off the rails, but nobody was killed). In general it seems the vast majority of delays were caused by people commiting suicide by jumping under the train, or earthquakes causing temporary train stops rather than any technical mishaps.

So I'm thinking of making the reliability to be "good" or even "very good".

[thietavu]

Played until 1902 with new engine set so far. Much improved experience! Some previously useless engines are now quite useful. Great work!

[Gumboots]

Just tried this out briefly.

I finally got myself a 1.06 installation that works. Last time I tried to install 1.06 (ages ago) it wouldn't run for me. This time I just copied over my 1.05 installation to a new folder, with the "Vista fix" and "No CD" fix and the "Low res texture fix" already applied to 1.05, reset all locos to default 1.05 and emptied the UserExtraContent folder, then applied the 1.06 patch. Worked straight away.

I did notice that the mid 1950's passenger car that came with 1.06 was actually a flat car carrying a bunch of what looked like Ford Model T's. I suspect a bug in 1.06.

Anyway, I just copied across all the fancy cargo cars made by WP&P that I've been using in 1.05 for ages, as well as his nifty custom N&W engines and a couple of others, and I now have a fully kitted out 1.06 with all the trimmings.

So, I have applied Lirio's loco balance patch, but haven't had a chance to test it much yet.

[Gumboots]

Okay, it didn't take that long to get everything sorted out. Here's Beta 1 of Lirio's RT3 v1.06 Loco Update patch. Now I just need some brave and intrepid souls to give it a whirl and tell me what they think. I documented every single change I made in both the readme file and in a chart of the locomotives in the game, or at least I tried to. The chart should be useful for comparing the performance of the various engine types. I strongly suggest installing my update into a fresh install of 1.06 before testing it out, as that will insure that if anything goes wrong we know the problem is with my update, and not with the update conflicting with something else.

I really wish I could have at least uploaded this before dropping off the face of these forums, then I'd have months worth of feedback already. I could have easily done it, but my life was kind of a wreck at the time and I had other things on my mind. Anyhow, here it is for those who've waited and are still interested. I will probably continue to improve it later, but for now I just want people to give it a shot as it is.

Ok, initial feedback from me, based on rather limited testing.

Since I'm building an A1 Berkshire model at the moment, I have been testing against the "Updated" Mikado 2-8-2. My testing so far (my version of a Berkshire, vs Mikado) has been an attempt to get a realistically changed profitability over a period of years on graded lines, with little or no advantage on water level lines, rather than just changing the stats.

My initial feeling is that the changed version of the Mikado is possibly a bit too good. In the OP of this thread you (Lirio) said "On that note, both the H10 and Northern have pulling capabilities that I find somewhat out of line with the other engines, and indeed their actual capabilities in reality. They were impressive, sure, but not quite that impressive".

However, in this update pack the pulling power of the Mikado has been substantially increased. I realise that this is down to trying to get it to make sense in the context of the other existing engines, but my feeling is that perhaps it would benefit from a bit more adjustment. Then again, the Berkshire probably could too.

I should mention that maybe we have somewhat different aims. I'm not at all concerned with the diesel or electric locomotives, and therefore not so concerned with the total number of locomotives available. I only count the steam ones, and I only count the steam ones I like.

My ultimate aim, and we'll have to see how far I can get with this, is to basically build up a steam-only portfolio of locomotives that covers all regions and eras and styles pretty well, including fictional but realisitically and plausibly done (no sci-fi silliness) second and third generation units for use in later years. Being stuck with only the Red Devil for anything after the 1980's doesn't really appeal to me. The Red Devil in reality was almost completely useless on grades, which is what you get when you massively boost power output without compensating with increased adhesive weight.