Hi guys,
I don't know the ins and outs of Trainmaster. I didn't even know about it until Hawk pointed it out to me last week. I've been away from RRT3 for about 2 yrs. I'm a player not a modder. So the following is from a players point of view.
After reading somewhat extensively in the TM forums I downloaded what I believe to be everything: The TMbeta2, TMbeta2 patch 4, Campaign files, Trainmaster_ExpressCars_DefaultBlue, Trainmaster_Troops_German, RRT3 patch 1.05 and Coast to Coast. (Is it possible to get all of this in one file and the ability for one "setup"; so that you don't have to do a bunch of copying and pasting?)
I was very pleased to see that after doing all of that and following the instructions for installation that the thing actually worked. I've done this type of operation with other games and they never seem to work. Great. Campaign: I was under the impression that the campaign was done, why else download the thing right? The only one that shows up for me is the Monkey. Scenarios: Don't know if there is suppose to be different scenarios for TM or not. All I see are ones from the original game and CtoC.
Started playing New York to Chicago. The first class passanger car is missing. Also many of the production building don't give you a demand/supply output when you click on them.
That's the fartherest I got so far. I can see this project has a lot of potential and my hats off to all of the producers. You have obviously put in alot of time and effort.
Is this ready for me?
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nedfumpkin
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Re: Is this ready for me?
There are scenarios available on the TM download page, and you are correct that there is only one campaign map so far. Previous RT3 maps will not play correctly in TM. They can usually be edited and made into TM maps, but for the most part they will not work, or you will get really weird results.
Trainmaster is a completely new version of RT3. It is the closest to RT4 that we could ever hope to see. It is based on the RT3 1.05 and 1.06, and it includes some concepts carried over from RT2. So you have to think of it as a different game altogther because so much has changed.
The cargo in TM is completely different. Not only have there been new ones added, but others have been replaced. To go with that, so too have the industries, and there are now different types of industries, more on that later, but the most significant change is the Agricultural Communities, agri-communities. It seems that this is the hardest part for people to understand as a difference, so I'll explain it some more.
In the real world, railroads don't got to individual farms and pick up a load of grain or milk. In most cases, the individual farms bring their wares to a central place such as a co-op in town, and there the goods are hauled away. This is how it works in TM. So rather than have individual farms supplying one cargo, TM has the agri-communities. There are also specialty farms, and plantations, but for the most part, you have the agri-communities, of which there are 3 major, and 2 minor.
The agri-communities will supply a range of agricultural products, and they will also generate passenger and mail traffic. Consider them a hicktown with pretty girls bathing in the water tower (see if anyone gets that reference).
Natural Resources are the mines, wells, pits and logging camps. They produce on their own, but will take inputs to increase their production. Some will also generate express traffic.
The industries in TM are divided into two types. General Industries, and Special Industries. General industries are your factories, and all that other stuff. Most will require at least 2 inputs to create their wares. Some will also produce by-products. As time goes on, these become more complex.
Special industries are included to add colour to the map. These include military installations, government buildings, and some others such as the shipyard. They cannot be built nor bought by the player.
Then there are the municipal buildings. The are the houses, stores, and everything else found in the towns. A lot have been added to the orginal set. Now there are service stations, industrial parks, hospitals, even a confectionery. These buildings will actually compete for cargo that you the player need for your industries.
Then there are the station facilities, and Rail Yard structures. These will help you get your cargo from where it is to where you need it.
Trainmaster focuses more on the supply chain and transportation aspects of RT3, and in a sum, it is much more difficult. The tycooning aspects of RT3 are the same.
Trainmaster is also designed to be modular. The reason you have to download separate express cars is because you will have choices to select from. Currently you can have either the German set, or the default Blue set. Other sets will be coming in the not too distant future. TM lends itself the it is possible to even include part sets for specific scenarios, and one is coming for the Persian Electric map.
The campaign files are just begun. They will evolve over time, and they will be added as time goes on unti lthey are all done. This is going to take a very long time. In the mean time, scenarios are being created that can be played by themselves.
------------
Part of the problem has been getting certain things done so that maps can be finished,. We are just at that point now, so maps can be made without fear of them being obsolete due to a change in the game system.
There is going to be one more patch, I know this for sure because I am currently typing out all the cargo recipes for all the buildings and double chacking all the files. I am finding some typos, etc, and I am making the changes as I go. None of this will affect the maps now, it's just a case of tidying up.
There is one more change that's been made to the exe file, and that is to allow the adding of municipal buildings to the event effects. I wasn't sure if this was affecting a previous bug, but now that I have fixed that, I have enabled this feature. This means that a scenario writer can add stuff like hospitals or apothecaries to specific locations via event effect should they wish to. An example I plan to use it to create suburbs by adding hi-rises and bungalows to a map based on passenger traffic.
I just have to double check the special industries, and municipal buildings and the documentation on all of them will be complete. That's when I will post patch 5.
As it stands, Trainmaster is essentially finished as far as game design is concerned. Before I am confortable calling it other than a beta, the following is my to do list....none of which will have any noticeable effect....
- Cargo Icons...still want to finish this file because it affects what is shown on the sides of certain cars to denote their contents.
- Orange Boxcar from the 1960s disappears at some angles, seems to be a skin problem.
- profile image for the GP 7 and double are orange/blue, when they should be CN green.
That's it. After that is maps, custom paks and campaign files.
----------------------------------
But I am sure that once you get acquainted with TM, and you've had the opportunity to play some maps, especially the ones I have coming, you will find it to be a very challenging game. In fact, you may find RT3 too easy. :)
PS packing all the files into one makes for a huge dowload. It's broken up to make it a bit easier to manage.
Trainmaster is a completely new version of RT3. It is the closest to RT4 that we could ever hope to see. It is based on the RT3 1.05 and 1.06, and it includes some concepts carried over from RT2. So you have to think of it as a different game altogther because so much has changed.
The cargo in TM is completely different. Not only have there been new ones added, but others have been replaced. To go with that, so too have the industries, and there are now different types of industries, more on that later, but the most significant change is the Agricultural Communities, agri-communities. It seems that this is the hardest part for people to understand as a difference, so I'll explain it some more.
In the real world, railroads don't got to individual farms and pick up a load of grain or milk. In most cases, the individual farms bring their wares to a central place such as a co-op in town, and there the goods are hauled away. This is how it works in TM. So rather than have individual farms supplying one cargo, TM has the agri-communities. There are also specialty farms, and plantations, but for the most part, you have the agri-communities, of which there are 3 major, and 2 minor.
The agri-communities will supply a range of agricultural products, and they will also generate passenger and mail traffic. Consider them a hicktown with pretty girls bathing in the water tower (see if anyone gets that reference).
Natural Resources are the mines, wells, pits and logging camps. They produce on their own, but will take inputs to increase their production. Some will also generate express traffic.
The industries in TM are divided into two types. General Industries, and Special Industries. General industries are your factories, and all that other stuff. Most will require at least 2 inputs to create their wares. Some will also produce by-products. As time goes on, these become more complex.
Special industries are included to add colour to the map. These include military installations, government buildings, and some others such as the shipyard. They cannot be built nor bought by the player.
Then there are the municipal buildings. The are the houses, stores, and everything else found in the towns. A lot have been added to the orginal set. Now there are service stations, industrial parks, hospitals, even a confectionery. These buildings will actually compete for cargo that you the player need for your industries.
Then there are the station facilities, and Rail Yard structures. These will help you get your cargo from where it is to where you need it.
Trainmaster focuses more on the supply chain and transportation aspects of RT3, and in a sum, it is much more difficult. The tycooning aspects of RT3 are the same.
Trainmaster is also designed to be modular. The reason you have to download separate express cars is because you will have choices to select from. Currently you can have either the German set, or the default Blue set. Other sets will be coming in the not too distant future. TM lends itself the it is possible to even include part sets for specific scenarios, and one is coming for the Persian Electric map.
The campaign files are just begun. They will evolve over time, and they will be added as time goes on unti lthey are all done. This is going to take a very long time. In the mean time, scenarios are being created that can be played by themselves.
------------
Part of the problem has been getting certain things done so that maps can be finished,. We are just at that point now, so maps can be made without fear of them being obsolete due to a change in the game system.
There is going to be one more patch, I know this for sure because I am currently typing out all the cargo recipes for all the buildings and double chacking all the files. I am finding some typos, etc, and I am making the changes as I go. None of this will affect the maps now, it's just a case of tidying up.
There is one more change that's been made to the exe file, and that is to allow the adding of municipal buildings to the event effects. I wasn't sure if this was affecting a previous bug, but now that I have fixed that, I have enabled this feature. This means that a scenario writer can add stuff like hospitals or apothecaries to specific locations via event effect should they wish to. An example I plan to use it to create suburbs by adding hi-rises and bungalows to a map based on passenger traffic.
I just have to double check the special industries, and municipal buildings and the documentation on all of them will be complete. That's when I will post patch 5.
As it stands, Trainmaster is essentially finished as far as game design is concerned. Before I am confortable calling it other than a beta, the following is my to do list....none of which will have any noticeable effect....
- Cargo Icons...still want to finish this file because it affects what is shown on the sides of certain cars to denote their contents.
- Orange Boxcar from the 1960s disappears at some angles, seems to be a skin problem.
- profile image for the GP 7 and double are orange/blue, when they should be CN green.
That's it. After that is maps, custom paks and campaign files.
----------------------------------
But I am sure that once you get acquainted with TM, and you've had the opportunity to play some maps, especially the ones I have coming, you will find it to be a very challenging game. In fact, you may find RT3 too easy. :)
PS packing all the files into one makes for a huge dowload. It's broken up to make it a bit easier to manage.
Re: Is this ready for me?
Great post Ned. I've added a link to this thread on the temporary download page for TM. 
Hawk
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nedfumpkin
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Re: Is this ready for me?
Thanks Hawk...a couple of things I should add....
Trainmaster makes use of part loads in its industries. These will be displayed as 0 in the industry window. For the most part, these will range from 0.1 to 0.5 loads of that cargo. TM is big on packaging, so in order to make flour, you need a load of grain/corn/rice and either 0.2 Textiles or paper. Thus, you can supply all the grain you want, but until you get sacs to put the flour in, it doesn't happen.
The other thing to remember is just how complex the supply chain is. In Rt3 to make a car you needed steel and tires. These were made from iron and coal, and rubber, respectively.
Well....in Trainmaster its not so simple. A car, 4 cars actually, is made up of 1 Steel + 0.3 Rubber + 0.2 Glass
0.5 Plastic + 0.5 Electronics
Each of those is made up of a number of things, and some of those are made of some other things.
So Trainmaster takes a bit of cargo management in order to make the stuff you will need. And along the way, different entities are looting your cargo for their own purposes.
Trainmaster makes use of part loads in its industries. These will be displayed as 0 in the industry window. For the most part, these will range from 0.1 to 0.5 loads of that cargo. TM is big on packaging, so in order to make flour, you need a load of grain/corn/rice and either 0.2 Textiles or paper. Thus, you can supply all the grain you want, but until you get sacs to put the flour in, it doesn't happen.
The other thing to remember is just how complex the supply chain is. In Rt3 to make a car you needed steel and tires. These were made from iron and coal, and rubber, respectively.
Well....in Trainmaster its not so simple. A car, 4 cars actually, is made up of 1 Steel + 0.3 Rubber + 0.2 Glass
0.5 Plastic + 0.5 Electronics
Each of those is made up of a number of things, and some of those are made of some other things.
So Trainmaster takes a bit of cargo management in order to make the stuff you will need. And along the way, different entities are looting your cargo for their own purposes.
-
RayofSunshine
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Re: Is this ready for me?
Well Ned,
As JoeExplorer, I didn't know about TM either until Hawk had to straighten me out on not only its existence, but that it didn't have anything to do with MSTS. And that was only the tip of the iceberg, as there was also a confusion regarding Sid Mier's Editions as well. But that being under the bridge, thank you for directing me to this thread, with further comments of your endeavors to create TM, with is concepts.
I can well understand the "input" to create a program of the extent which You have discribed for the "complete marketable product". Unlike now in RT2 and RT3, that a product is picked up in the fields, and hauled to the bakery. Having lived around grain elevators, I know that it has to be "milled" and then put in "bags". Hence, TM goes to a level of "reality".
So, many of us amateurs may not get any medals, but we will sure have a lot of "fun" in the challenge, to just play. Hence I am anxious to see the completed product for all the membership to enjoy, although I realize that you will continue to make changes.
Thanks again for all your talents, and a llllooottt of time, with that of the other producers to create such a program.
As JoeExplorer, I didn't know about TM either until Hawk had to straighten me out on not only its existence, but that it didn't have anything to do with MSTS. And that was only the tip of the iceberg, as there was also a confusion regarding Sid Mier's Editions as well. But that being under the bridge, thank you for directing me to this thread, with further comments of your endeavors to create TM, with is concepts.
I can well understand the "input" to create a program of the extent which You have discribed for the "complete marketable product". Unlike now in RT2 and RT3, that a product is picked up in the fields, and hauled to the bakery. Having lived around grain elevators, I know that it has to be "milled" and then put in "bags". Hence, TM goes to a level of "reality".
So, many of us amateurs may not get any medals, but we will sure have a lot of "fun" in the challenge, to just play. Hence I am anxious to see the completed product for all the membership to enjoy, although I realize that you will continue to make changes.
Thanks again for all your talents, and a llllooottt of time, with that of the other producers to create such a program.
-
nedfumpkin
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- Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 9:16 pm
- Location: Hamilton - Canada
Re: Is this ready for me?
If you download it now and play it you will be seeing the finished product to a degree that any changes coming will not be noticeable. Unless of course you consider the campaign files, but those will be coming over a very long period.
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nedfumpkin
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Re: Is this ready for me?
Just to let you know....I'm almost finished documenting all the buildings and what they do. I should have it finished and posted by the weekend....but be forwarned...I'm on page 45 now, and there's about 10-15 to go. :)
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Grandma Ruth
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Re: Is this ready for me?
Ned has done such a lot of good work on this and created a game that is almost new, rather than a mod of RT3. I'm afraid I've had to abandon my post as tester/scenario writer due to real life getting in the way, else we might have been a bit nearer a campaign by now.
I'm hoping to get back into it, but until I get a round tuit, which Hawk might graciously provide
, I do hope there will be some volunteers to have a go!
I'm hoping to get back into it, but until I get a round tuit, which Hawk might graciously provide
, I do hope there will be some volunteers to have a go!
Re: Is this ready for me?
I do believe there have been some volunteers to to come forward to work on the two main campaign scenarios as well as to produce a new(ish) three part mini campaign of their own, as well as a couple of other stand alone scenarios .. although I can't recall the name right now...Grandma Ruth wrote: I do hope there will be some volunteers to have a go!
I need a little less pressure, and a little more time
"A Little More Homework" by Jason Robert Brown from 13: the Musical
"A Little More Homework" by Jason Robert Brown from 13: the Musical
Re: Is this ready for me?
Like this?Grandma Ruth wrote:but until I get a round tuit, which Hawk might graciously provide
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Hawk
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Grandma Ruth
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Re: Is this ready for me?
Absolutely, Hawk! Thank you!
Re: Is this ready for me?
Among all municipal buildings, The "Service Station" seems to have some sort of bug. It doesn't seed automatically in any my installations, it can only be placed manually. Has any correction been made available, or am I missing something?
If you have no Marxists in the leadership of your trade union, you have no trade union.
Abolish NATO and the (Na)zionist state !
Abolish NATO and the (Na)zionist state !
Re: Is this ready for me?
TBH I've never used it. Have you checked the files? It's possible someone might have missed setting it as an actual municipal building in the relevant byte.
Complete express car and caboose packs - Custom double tankers (Alternative F era) - Pennsy H3 Consolidation
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Слава Україні! Героям слава! -
RulerofRails
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Re: Is this ready for me?
If you checked the files you would see that there are no seeding values in the footer.
PS. The download you linked doesn't contain the service station.
PS. The download you linked doesn't contain the service station.
Re: Is this ready for me?
They did set as a municipal building, as far as I can understand from the BCA explanation notes. However, I cannot see where these "seeding values" are stored in the footer. For reference, I am submitting the documentation below:
Of course there are many more parameters above that I cannot explain, but let's confine it to the seeding issue for the time beingFOOTER (169)
--------------
000 (-169) : 4 : int : buildable (? is a fertilizer factory not-buildable ??)
004 (-165) : 4 : int : buyable (? why hotel, post, saloon, restaurant, ... ??)
008 (-161) : 4 : int : upgrade price?
012 (-157) : 4 : float : q2 (0 or 0.5 or 1)
016 (-153) : 4 : int : upgradable ?
020 (-149) : 61 :string : building name
081 (-088) : 1 : byte : on-the-rails type
082 (-087) : 4 : int : q3 (1830)
086 (-083) : 4 : int : q3 (1850)
090 (-079) : 4 : int : q3 (1900)
094 (-075) : 4 : int : q3 (1950)
098 (-071) : 4 : int : q3 (2000)
102 (-067) : 4 : float : passengers : (commercial 0.5, house 1, hotel museum 2, church cinema deptstore 3, stadium 5)
106 (-063) : 4 : float : passengers : (commercial 0.5, house 1, hotel museum 2, church cinema deptstore 3, stadium 5)
110 (-059) : 4 : float : mail : (commercial 2, house 1)
114 (-055) : 4 : float : mail : (commercial 2, house 1)
118 (-051) : 4 : float : troops : (barracks 1)
122 (-047) : 4 : float : troops : (barracks 1)
126 (-043) : 1 : byte : is... ? restaurant(0) hotel(1) saloon(2) post(3) customs(4)
127 (-042) : 1 : byte : isPort?
128 (-041) : 1 : byte : isWarehouse?
129 (-040) : 40 : : zeros
169 (-000)
If you have no Marxists in the leadership of your trade union, you have no trade union.
Abolish NATO and the (Na)zionist state !
Abolish NATO and the (Na)zionist state !
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RulerofRails
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Re: Is this ready for me?
These are the values that control seeding.
It should be obvious that there are 5 periods, 1830-1850, 1850-1900, 1900-1950, 1950-2000, and 2000+. In case you aren't used to using hex a lot, be sure your numbers are hex-base instead of decimal. For example 11 in hex is 0B.
Re: Is this ready for me?
Thank you very much for the clarification, I'll try to make them work. The particular section in the "explanatory notes" was not so explanatory after all...
Apropos, by discriminating between these periods we can prevent a particular building type from appearing during selected ones? If we define the start year as 1898 at the byte address 038 and the seeding period limited to1850-1900, it means that this building category will be generated only during these 2 years? And maybe make it re-appear, say after 1950?
Apropos, by discriminating between these periods we can prevent a particular building type from appearing during selected ones? If we define the start year as 1898 at the byte address 038 and the seeding period limited to1850-1900, it means that this building category will be generated only during these 2 years? And maybe make it re-appear, say after 1950?
If you have no Marxists in the leadership of your trade union, you have no trade union.
Abolish NATO and the (Na)zionist state !
Abolish NATO and the (Na)zionist state !
Re: Is this ready for me?
I'm not sure that will work, but you can always try it and see what happens.
Complete express car and caboose packs - Custom double tankers (Alternative F era) - Pennsy H3 Consolidation
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Слава Україні! Героям слава! Re: Is this ready for me?
OK, it worked. Now the Service Station is randomly generated at the session startup along with the other municipal buildings. I place it here, in case someone can verify its correctness and replace the defective one (I don't recall where I had downloaded it).
Update: I just ran a brief test of TrainMaster. Also the versions of Service Station and Department Store officially distributed with the TrainMaster have the same bug and fail to seed at random. I'd be glad to provide mine as replacements.
Hey, somebody else had noticed that too!
Update: I just ran a brief test of TrainMaster. Also the versions of Service Station and Department Store officially distributed with the TrainMaster have the same bug and fail to seed at random. I'd be glad to provide mine as replacements.
Service Station.rar- (252 Bytes) Downloaded 93 times
Hey, somebody else had noticed that too!
We must really do something about faulty add-ons and stuff scattered around.Cash on Wheels wrote: ↑Sun Nov 13, 2016 4:34 pmSomeone goofed and deleted its setting in the .bca footer. Therefore the DS will not seed properly.