Ontario Northland

[nedfumpkin]

Yes, if I am not mistaken, the ticket numbers actually have goal information along with a random number. If the number comes up then you win. I think it will win one in 10 times or something like that.

To be honest, until a few days ago, I completely forgot that I made this scenario. It was left waiting to be tested, a long process since there are 4 different scenarios.

Also, I tend to bury clues in the newspapers, especially the minor headlines.

[Blackhawk]

Alright, I got done with a play through of this yesterday and so I'll write up how it went.

I started between Sault Ste Marie - Blind River - Massey and ended up getting a paper mill in Montreal River. After that I largely focused on buying/building a lot of industry for awhile. Largely, more paper mills and lumber yards by logging camps. Massey became an industrial hub for me as I built a distillery, lumber yard, publishing house, and tannery there. Over in Sault Ste. Marie I built a creamery and later on a textile mill. Meanwhile during this time I also bought out some of the nearby AI players and expanded my railroad to connect Massey to Biscotasing and Sudbury. There isn't too much more to say for my strategy as I just focused on making sure I had a solid industrial base so plenty of money was coming in as I expanded my railroad.

I went with the Developer option, but I'm not sure why I did that as if I went with that as if I went with Transient, I could have gotten free access to the US. The 400k entry fee was really that much of a hurdle to get over. Without the option of a "don't haul" button, I don't really think the don't haul explosives is really that feasible without having to micromanage all your trains like crazy.

Like RulerofRails eventually as the map goes on the price variation for products becomes much greater. Mine may not have become as high as his but I noticed in the editor that there are events that increase the price of cargoes. Eventually it becomes a modifier of 45% increase in cargo price, which when taken with the supply and demand and length of the game etc, there become a lot of large price variations across the map.

While keeping track of the requirements on paper I appeared to have everything completed, but the victory didn't trigger. One reason may be a bug in one of the events which I will discuss in a minute:

Comments/Bugs:
- The briefing about 10 loads to/from somewhere could be a little clearer. -- I didn't really pay much attention to what it meant and didn't run into any issues during the game with it. Later when I looked into the editor I noticed what it meant and it was to prevent you from "cheating" by bringing in a cargo and then hauling that same cargo away for credit.
- Before the 3 messages about transient/importer/developer, a message saying the 3 possible paths to victory will be appearing might be useful to know what these 3 options are for.
- One of the victory conditions requires a certain number of cities in Ontario to be connected (29?), except the event tests for company cities connected, as I don't think there is a way to just test the number of cities connected in a territory.
- There is 1 square of "Ontario" in the Quebec region (slightly North East of the James Bay label)
- The electricity goal is somewhat difficult to get. It takes a lot of effort to make sure all the coal and fuel make it to an electric plant. With the 45% increase in cargo price, I wonder if this makes it difficult for the electric plants to work since coal/fuel is more expensive and the price of electricity in the game is fixed so they aren't likely to be profitable and therefore don't work at a very high efficiency.
- The machine shop and electronics factory don't work (or show a recipe) because the electronics factory is turned off in the industry availability list. If the cargo is available elsewhere, then you can have the industry turned off and placed by event. But if the cargo isn't available elsewhere by another industry then placing it by event but having it off in the industry list will result in non-working industrial building.
- I'm pretty sure I won the Irish Million before I was ever told it existed. Also by the time the Irish Million comes around, I was swimming in cash so another million wasn't that useful to me. The Irish million awards don't have a year requirement so I got the award, and then a few years later a message about the Irish sweepstakes is mentioned and I started getting ticket numbers.
- Once a city has had its hauls fulfilled, the status messages for that city could probably be turned off
- The 8 wheeler didn't show up for me. -- I may have to double check and make sure I have the patch on where the locomotives don't have an end date. I see many but not all of the locomotives in my list don't have end dates, but for some reason others still do.
- I notice you use all the warehouses already. To me it seemed relatively difficult at times to get the warehouse in Winnipeg to produce/convert the cargoes. I built a flour mill, meat packing plant, and oil refinery near by to help drive up the price to aid in the conversion. (oil seemed the most likely to be produced even without the refinery). I often had machinery, medicine, and autos there at the same time and they would all fight for the chance to be converted. I wonder if moving one of the production chains from Winnipeg Warehouse I, to Warehouse II might help alleviate that issue. (then move one of the demands from warehouse II to warehouse I so nothing else changes, just less competition over cargoes fighting for production/conversion)
- I don't remember seeing a message saying I successfully shipped Oil to Toronto. (all the other required cargoes seem to have a message)
- There also isn't a message saying you successfully hauled 10 loads to Churchill. I see there is an event for it, but there is no text in that event saying it was completed.
- The Toronto Grain, Winnipeg cattle, Winnipeg alcohol, Chicago cattle, Winnipeg auto events all say 100 loads, when I think it's supposed to say 25.

- The status page disappears after hauling alcohol to Winnipeg, as the event increases game variable 1 by 10, when it should probably be a company variable 1. I think this may also be one of causes of the victory not triggering for me.

Trainmaster victory requires Company variable 1 = 753,915. (but I calculate 753,905 so as mentioned about the previous event it needs to say CV1 not GV1)
I calculated the same number as you for CV2 and CV4, but CV3 you say should be 3774 (also required in Stationmaster III) and I calculated 3711.

Overall a nice map that required a few custom consists but didn't require a great deal of micromanaging. I imagine the map will look even better after the painting is complete. Nice work.

[nedfumpkin]

hanks for the informaton about how things worked. I've decided to redo the map and keep the same theme, but with a different approach. I'm also changing the warehouses, because I do had difficulty with the ectricity.

I should be finished making the changes in a couple of days.

[RulerofRails]

Blackhawk, Wow! You are a really good tester giving a detailed report of what you found. I have trouble tracing through how all the events interact. I am glad that I am not the only one to experience some high prices on this map.

I think that some of the goals could have a little more clarification if possible. I saw the requirement not to have any industry profit and therefore didn't buy any except the power plants. Maybe a little note that TM is exempt from this would be good. From my results, I don't think it would make this map too difficult to not allow industry buying, but the Electricity goal makes it necessary.

I tried to play through for Developer Stationmaster. I am not knowledgeable to know what went wrong, but, I reached the goals but didn't see any medal yet. I selected the option to go for Stationmaster before 1930. I also noticed that I got a double-up on connection count by connecting to an AI city with my own company before I took that AI over. Even though they meant nothing for my game, I got the hauling notices (completion notices such as 50 loads to/from Moosone and the 5-yearly reports about hauls to/from the warehouses). I also had the TM goals show up in my status page (Electricity, sole company, etc.) even though I received no notice that those things were necessary seeing I was playing for Stationmaster.

I started with the same route as Blackhawk, seems to be the best starting position on the map especially if you can't buy industry. I also connected to Sudbury right from the start.

Just saw your post Ned, just ignore this stuff if it becomes obsolete with changes. Looking forward to the new version.

[nedfumpkin]

I am taking all this into consideration on the changes I am making.

I started in Dryden and Ignace, then connected to Thunderbay. This kept all the AI over Sudbury way and I did very well. Also playing as developer.

[Blackhawk]

Thanks for the kind words RoR. And your welcome Ned, it's always enjoyable to test out a new TM map when I get free time. Good luck in the rewrite of the scenario.

This is more a comment in general rather than this specific scenario:
I took a look at a saved game with some variation of the prices and this is the price map for 1 cargo that came out:

ontario2.jpg (134.53 KiB) Viewed 6820 times

However, if I removed the 45% cargo price increase the map looks more normal:

ontario1.jpg (142 KiB) Viewed 6820 times

As some of the cargoes already are pretty expensive (cargo, food, etc), when a large price modifier is thrown in it seems to mess with the demand map and price fluctuations.

As for this scenario I did a test over a few short years on producing electricity. I did 3 runs over 3-4 years using 1. the 45% price increase, 2. just normal price, and 3. -15% price and the power plants seemed to produce better when the price of coal/fuel was cheaper. So in general, lower cargo price = easier to produce electricity. In this scenario, lowering the fuel (and oil) price may help in producing electricity. Lowering coal price would probably help too, but the coal is used in other industries and at warehouses in their production/conversions so a low coal price may inhibit the conversion.

[nedfumpkin]

I think the price increase is an error where it should have been a production increase. I can't see adjusting a rpice like that.

The re-write is just going to change the approach to things, the overall idea of the mapsis going to be the same. One thing I learned is that Alberta is a coal producer, so the Winnipeg warehouse should supply coal instead of demanding it. This will make a difference in the electricity production. I've also made the cargo mix 1 oil makes 2 petroleum.

I am taking out the explosives no haul condition because I am also changing the approach to stationmaster. I am going to make it less of a hard choice that excludes others, and more of a choice of second place.

Thanks for letting me know about the electronics factory no being active.

The idea that I am trying to accomplish here is to have three different objectives that compete against each other for cargo and capital. If you can balance all three then you get Trainmaster, but if you focus on one you get stationmaster. Cargo that needs to be exported also is needed for local production and consumption. Long distances across the wilderness costs money that could be invested in industry. Or that's the idea at least. :)

Thanks for the help Blawkhawk and RulerofRails I really appreciate it.

[nedfumpkin]

I figured out what was causing the prices to spike.

I had events set up so that when a certain amount of cargo was hauled from a region the production and price would increase slightly. I must have forgotten that price adjustments aren't restricted to the territory, so as each event was triggered, cargo prices would increase 5%. Nine events gave the 45%. ooops.

[nedfumpkin]

Here is the new version of this map. Concepts are similar, but changed.

It's a 50 year map with some hefty objectives. 100 million in company assets, 10,000 gwh of electicity, and some haulage goals.

Nw you have Trainmaster goals to accomplish, however, you will be given the choice of three lesser goals for Station Master, and you can opt to get that early. There is no lose condition after 50 years, you play on but can't get a medal. You can lose by shipping certain cargo to the wrong place, i.e. drop shipping back and forth to meet haulage goals.

I've played 15 years into it and my proejctions are that the goals are achievable, but they will take time. The AI seems a little dummer this version, but it could just be a random thing.

So if anyone wants to give it a test, here it is. Happy Railroading. It's gone take me a few days to play it through to test it, then I'll paint it.

You need the Cowboy Engines for this map. They are around here somewhere.

[Hawk]

You need the Cowboy Engines for this map. They are around here somewhere.

Right'chere they are.

viewtopic.php?p=28447#p28447

[nedfumpkin]

I managed to play this until 1920 when I decided that I had approached it a bit wrong. I still think that the goals are achievable, but it will take some doing to get them. At least from what I can tell.

So far everything seems to work as intended.

[nedfumpkin]

Actually, things didn't work as intended. This should be it now. I am currently at 1918. While I am succeeding, it is proving to be a challenge.

[nedfumpkin]

I realized that not having the railyard structures in this map that it is creating some logistic problems with haulage, so I am turning them on in the fina version. For now, just shift+E and turn them on in the special conditions part of the editor.

[Blackhawk]

I'll see if I can get some time and try the revised version of this map this weekend. In the original version, I don't know if railyard structures were enabled, but I know I didn't use them.

[nedfumpkin]

You might want to wait for the final version. I am really just tweaking it right now, and should be painting the maps this weekend.

[nedfumpkin]

This is the final version of this map.

Your goals are to haul cargo and develop industry. It should prove challenging. It's a 50 year map, and it should take that long to achieve all the goals.

I'm going to try to finish the cowboy engines before making this avaialble for general download.

[RulerofRails]

I made a start on the previous version but will play the new version now. Congratulations you turned up the challenge, nice!

I haven't played enough TM to have a really good strategy figured out, but am figuring that a good industry base for income and focusing on the hauls early on is what I will try. That said, so far on the previous versions I had faster starts with rails than industry.

You probably noticed this, but the Consolidation II has the outline of the spark catcher still slightly visible sometimes. Also the obvious yellow light above the smokestack.

[Gumboots]

Yeah I already told him how to fix those. He wanted me to do it for him, but I prefer to empower others to do stuff for themselves.

[nedfumpkin]

I made a start on the previous version but will play the new version now. Congratulations you turned up the challenge, nice!

I haven't played enough TM to have a really good strategy figured out, but am figuring that a good industry base for income and focusing on the hauls early on is what I will try. That said, so far on the previous versions I had faster starts with rails than industry.

You probably noticed this, but the Consolidation II has the outline of the spark catcher still slightly visible sometimes. Also the obvious yellow light above the smokestack.

I'm going to try to get back workig on the Consolidation, because the work I did so far was just to the skin, I am going to see what I can come up with. It's the reason why I haven't released it yet.

The strategy I am using on this map is really only for the first 10 years, after that, the game is so open that I don't think any one particular strategy is the right one.

The first thing I did was start a company with 80/800. Buy the papermill at dryden and connect to Ignace.Run for two years waiting for your stock to drop. Try to get all your stock within 5 years. Ignore AI stock until you have all yours.

Next connect to Kenora, then to the logging camps past ignace, then to Thunder bay. Watch for the lumber mill at Kenora then buy it. next connect to Winnipeg. Then get Winnipeg up an running. The goal warehouses are set to not produce anything until after 1 load has been hauled from them. This will get oil flowing. Next I put a Textile mill at Thunder bay. Later you'll want a chemical plant in this area too...put it off to the side since your coal is needed at the power station and this way you can control the chemical plant better.

Then I start working on the other side. Connect the Steel Mill at Sudbury to Ottawa using a separate station. You want to control the coal to make steel. There are two lumber camps on Manitoulin Island that I put a paper mill and lumber mill right beside. I haul iron from Sudbury Steel to Ottawa and haul back coal. All iron gets shipped to Sudbury Steel where it is used for steel or shipping to ottawa.

Basically everything else is up in the air. You need to get goods and food manufactured as early as possible. I've found that putting some industries out in industrial clusters way from cities works well for controlling the cargo. Double tracking helps a lot as far as getting your cargo moved so start double tracking main lines early.

The challenge in this scenario is trying to figure out what to do next. I shy away from buying resources unless they are at rock bottom prices. AI tends to buy logging camps and mines, and I figure I can get them when I take over the AI. I have also found that when working out west, I can sometimes lay track between AI tracks and make a bit of money without a lot of investment.

The hardest part I found was getting goods moving. As soon as the international Warehouse appears, you get a lot of plastic so you can build an industrial assembly line. Same with a publishing house. Also, above dryden there are 3 iron mines, this is a good place to put a steel mill. There is tons of coal available on this side so you can get a cannery going very easily. You'll also want to get an auto plant going but need cargo rom the east to make it work. Again, iron used to make steel is iron that isn't getting hauled out. But once you have met the goals for Ottawa or Toronto, you don't need to ship iron there. By 1920, I met half the goal for iron going to Ottawa. Hides is the problem I found because you have to go all over to collect them. A meat packing plant also helps since it produces hides.

Part of the challenge is that the cargo you must haul out is equally needed to produce food and goods. You should use the railyard structures, and drop ship some stuff at the warehouses like food and goods because only the goal cargo cannot be shipped out.

The AI can be stupid ore really smart. In one iteration they all went bust except one, in another iteration they all did very well and I was chasing one company at over 8 million for a merger. So this is the only real variable in this scenario, the rest is choices you make.

Spoiler alert....you want to get industry going right away. As soon as you make $1 from ndustry, you get $100k company cash, but also get slipped some personal cash. This will help you get ore of your own stock.

One final note...it may seem like the regional reports are not counting your cargo properly. Wishful thinking. :) Cargo must be delivered before it is counted, so anything in transit to or from a warehouse doesn't get counted until delivered.

[RulerofRails]

Wow! Ned. Great detailed starting strategy you posted. Very helpful, thanks. I agree you are right there are so many strategy options in TM. That's great, but sometimes I can't decide what to do next!

When trying to test starting with rails between Sudbury and Sault Saint Maire seemed to work well then expanding round the lake to Collingwood. All the farms have a good stockpile of cargo that can be hauled to Sault Saint Maire for a tidy profit.