Warrington Wire - Spoiler, only read after playing !!!!!

[Grandma Ruth]

@RulerofRails: First, I didn't realise that you weren't the author of this scenario till I read the old threads. So now I feel less constrained in criticising, especially the schoolboy humour in some of the newspapers - which of course was more acceptable (but not much more) in 2010! Although to be fair, I think these were mostly the economy newspapers, which wouldn't be under anybody's control.

The GV1=4 event
This is a screenshot of the event conditions:

First, I don't see how there can not be a company with ID = 1, I can't see any way that the player can already have taken it over.

Second, the territory test doesn't work. I tested it with company track in a territory and no track in a territory and it fired both times. So the "territory" condition was ignored. Here it is firing when it shouldn't (no schoolboy humour please):

So really, one might just as well have used the date alone.

Third, the real problem is that at no point in the game does the GV1 reset to 0, so that none of the "Industrial" events can fire. (Presumably this is why they were taken out when the standalone was made into a campaign map? It's a shame, because that whole sequence looks interesting.) All of the industrial events have GV1 = 0 as a condition. Here's one:

I am finding all sorts of other things but is it worth thinking about this one again? Or would our collective energy be better used making something new?

[RulerofRails]

I can't see any way that the player can already have taken it over.

The game is quite complex. With some luck (if it doesn't have a good feed for it's industries, etc.., morally questionable tactic would be to set a train to "steal" those cargoes) and a hard push I believe it is possible. There are tricks that people can play in the stock market too. Some are "extreme", an example of a more acceptable one: if the AI men take on a lot of debt and the economy were to down-turn we can probably short enough stock in all the companies they are invested in to bankrupt them and collapse the stock market. Then we can buy everything for a song. To take it into the slightly questionable: selling off some of your stock to bait them to buy it on margin (they buy paced on the fundamentals of price).

This isn't going to happen if the player doesn't plan for it. This is an advanced tactic, for the players trying to challenge themselves or replaying the scenario. Perhaps some are rebellious about the twist.

If players don't experience the twist their game will look quite different. The express comparison therefore makes little sense. So, the industrial target was added as an alternative for this circumstance.

Second, the territory test doesn't work. I tested it with company track in a territory and no track in a territory and it fired both times. So the "territory" condition was ignored. Here it is firing when it shouldn't (no schoolboy humour please):

The intent of the territory test (in "1840 CheckID1") is to allow access to Yorkshire for Liverpool & Manchester Railway so it can expand there.

I can't tell exactly how you setup your test event. The game should be able to tell if you have track in a territory or not. I don't remember that being a part of the game that was broken.

I am finding all sorts of other things but is it worth thinking about this one again? Or would our collective energy be better used making something new?

How many are we talking? I would say don't spend too much time on it. But feel free to keep track of ones you do spot and I will take a look.

I don't remember the humor. I'm not a comedian. It is the creator's style whether we like it or not. My attempt at humor would be even less amusing I am sure. Most players will just skim the notices on replays, so I don't think it's incredibly important. What I did to the map is only like 1-2% effort compared to what edbangor did in actually making it. Just to be clear, I took the campaign map and made the fixes/slight improvements to it.

[Grandma Ruth]

Oh I didn't realise you might not experience the twist! So the industrial events were only to come in if that happened.
And now I understand the "Yorkshire" refers to the effect, not the condition. No wonder my test didn't work as I was expecting it to trigger the event rather than being a consequence of it. Now I see.
There were quite a number of annoying references to "British Rail" after it had ceased to exist, but not of any consequence really. I think some of this must be geared to the "surprise" event never happening. I deleted some of the status page events concerning access as there wasn't enough room for the relevant ones I needed to see. Once you've got access to a territory, it's not helpful to have space taken up telling you how to get access to it!
One thing which is a puzzle at the moment is the "percentage" of the express numbers. It looks like it should work, but it doesn't, it just repeats the express count for your company. (The event that should work it out is Express Gauge.) I think this is an excellent idea though, a real Catch 22. The more you haul, the harder it gets and I haven't worked out how to deal with that yet. (1844) Given that it doesn't seem to be working right, I might just take over the remaining companies and it will stop counting (I think).
By the way, the railyard hopper and the Railroad Office work fine! The Railroad Office even makes a profit!
I'll finish the game, now I've got so far, but I don't really think it's worth a lot of time correcting errors. The percentage one, maybe, as that would be a useful thing to have working properly in future?
Oh and one more thing - after the death of George Stephenson, he just goes on playing as if nothing had happened! Doesn't make any difference to the gameplay, but it might be nice to "replace" him again with another event ???? As Mark Twain said, reports of his death were greatly exaggerated

[Gumboots]

There were quite a number of annoying references to "British Rail" after it had ceased to exist, but not of any consequence really. I think some of this must be geared to the "surprise" event never happening. I deleted some of the status page events concerning access as there wasn't enough room for the relevant ones I needed to see. Once you've got access to a territory, it's not helpful to have space taken up telling you how to get access to it!

That sort of thing annoys me too, which is why I'm always careful with conditional checks on status events. IMO, the status page is a critical part of the user interface, and should be as well thought out as any other part of a user interface. It needs to scan well, quickly and easily and pleasantly. If something useful won't fit on the status page with reasonable clarity (ie: looking like a user interface, not a database dump) I make it available somewhere else (ie: briefing or whatever). I keep the status page for the highest priority items only, and spend time testing the precise wording and arrangement for maximum clarity.

One thing which is a puzzle at the moment is the "percentage" of the express numbers. It looks like it should work, but it doesn't, it just repeats the express count for your company. (The event that should work it out is Express Gauge.) I think this is an excellent idea though, a real Catch 22. The more you haul, the harder it gets and I haven't worked out how to deal with that yet.

I don't play TM, and don't even have it installed at the moment, but am curious about the event logic and what it is trying to achieve.

Oh and one more thing - after the death of George Stephenson, he just goes on playing as if nothing had happened! Doesn't make any difference to the gameplay, but it might be nice to "replace" him again with another event ???? As Mark Twain said, reports of his death were greatly exaggerated

Is it even possible to replace a player by event?

[RulerofRails]

Ok. I looked and I think there's enough small stuff to warrant an update. Due to inexperience I missed some things that are obvious now.

I agree that ledger presentation is a bit of an art. I really hoped someone would give me some feedback on the SCBC ledger. I made quite some effort on that, but I believe it can be refined further. (I would have gotten close to finalizing an update for that this week if I didn't get into TM stuff again....). I will make some effort to make this ledger better too. And, Gumboots, if you have some general guidelines on the format I would be interested in that.

BTW, on my first try I have been able to be the sole company surviving in March 1836. I didn't use any dirty tricks. Express is insane in these early years! Imagine I said that this was a "difficult scenario" back in the day. For sure, I have a lot more experience in the game by now. The scenario should accommodate various skill/effort levels.

There is a "twist" event in this. It will put you in control of another player and company part way through the game. The idea is to encourage the player to compete with the AI (the company he/she built up) for market share map-wide for express traffic (passengers, mail, and troops). The ultimate goal on the map is to amass points. You will be given a market share target. Hitting this will earn you some points. Pass one and you will be given a new higher one. This is the kind of coding that is not sanely possible in 1.05.

[Grandma Ruth]

@Gumboots, hope screenshots will help as you haven't got TM installed.

This is what the player sees - the requirement to have a certain percentage of the total express traffic. What happens is Catch-22 - each time you meet the target it's raised for the next year.

This is the event that creates it, so the most important thing is CV1. CV3 is just a simple addition to increase the target for next year.

So the question is, how do you generate CV1? Unfortunately it's too big for a screenshot but these are the Effects of the event that we hope would generate CV1:

Set Company Variable 1 to [YTD Company Mail Hauled]
Company Variable 1 + [YTD Company Passengers Hauled]
Company Variable 1 + [YTD Troops hauled to Terr.]
(NB the last one is a mistake, obviously, but it doesn’t make any difference to the problem)
Set Company Variable 2 to [Game-wide YTD Mail Hauled]
Company Variable 2 + [Game-wide YTD Passengers Hauled]
Company Variable 2 + [Game-wide YTD Troops Hauled]
Company Variable 1*100
Company Variable 1/[Company Variable 2]

So that looks as though it ought to generate a percentage, doesn't it? But it doesn't. What appears as the "percentage" is actually the number of loads hauled. On the status page screenshot above, the number 83 is in fact the number of express loads hauled by the company. Clearly the addition of the three items to make CV1 has worked.
I think maybe it can't be done in one event, it would need three separate ones?

I think it will be interesting to have a way to work out percentages for future scenarios, lots of ways it could be used - and once we've got that sorted, we could do averages and so forth.

[Gumboots]

Ok, yep. I get the picture. I did an event for total express loads yonks ago (see this topic). I then used separate events for the < = > comparison against the other variable (which tracked target value). That worked (the map was this one) so I think you're right that splitting it into three events should work for this one. My guess would be...

Event 1:
Set Company Variable 1 to [YTD Company Mail Hauled]
Company Variable 1 + [YTD Company Passengers Hauled]
Company Variable 1 + [YTD Company Troops Hauled]

Event 2:
Set Company Variable 2 to [Game-wide YTD Mail Hauled]
Company Variable 2 + [Game-wide YTD Passengers Hauled]
Company Variable 2 + [Game-wide YTD Troops Hauled]

Event 3:
CV1 * 100 / CV2

Averages could be a bit trickier, depending on exactly what you want the average of.

[Grandma Ruth]

Great, thanks! When RulerofRails sees this, I'm sure he'll be interested. Meanwhile I'll test it out on the game I'm playing now.
By the way, I've come to the point where Robert Stephenson dies - so maybe the intention was to have George replaced by his son Robert (a famous railway engineer in his own right).

[Grandma Ruth]

(I would have gotten close to finalizing an update for that [SCBC] this week if I didn't get into TM stuff again....).

Should I change some of the simpler things that I can change (which I am doing anyway for my own satisfaction) and let you have that revised map so you're not taking time to change minor things? Or do you feel better if I just tell you the various problems I'm finding?

[RulerofRails]

Um, the math to get the percentage in one event is working fine for me. I checked it with a new event that will expose the current YTD company express loads hauled in CV4.

Set Company Variable 4 to [YTD Company Mail Hauled]
Company Variable 4 + [YTD Company Passengers Hauled]
Company Variable 4 + [YTD Company Troops Hauled]

Then I manually compared CV4 with CV2 to check if it matches CV1. I couldn't fault it. I don't know what to say other than that.

Lately, I have gotten to the point of keeping documentation about the changes I make. Maybe it's overkill, although it's a lot easier for somebody to test the map for logical errors if they know what is changed so they can focus directly on that (testing can waste a lot of time). Having to reference an old version to "see what's changed" gets old fast. Also, it's very useful if for some reason you lose your progress (sometimes the game corrupts files and it isn't even your fault).

The list would work better for me. This way it can become the change list. Fixing issues from a list isn't going to take a lot of my time in comparison to testing. Keeping the list of changes takes more time, but for me it's worth it for more efficient testing.

[Grandma Ruth]

I keep everything on a spreadsheet - if we were really with-it we could use a Google sheet to share! I know a lot of people don't like sharing things in the cloud, I'm not that keen on sharing my bank statement!!! but this I think would be OK. I share my family tree in this way.
But this is weird. Here's a screenshot of the status/ledger page. I've also put in a bit extra which shows the actual values for what's being hauled. The company has 19 and the overall is 26. So that can't be 57%, is it? or am I just going completely batty? which is perfectly possible. or have I lost the ability to do percentages? It should be 19/26*100, yes?

[RulerofRails]

Hmm, I'm using LibreOffice for spreadsheets. I have used a spreadsheet to track variable use, but I found it not that good for keeping a list, Formatting a spreadsheet to present information clearly and concisely is a bit of a time sink for me. If you saw the spreadsheets I made without thought about the format you wouldn't understand anything. I just use notepad++ (it saves your work if it's accidentally closed) for that. I'm not really fond of the cloud. How much back and forth is there likely to be? Hopefully not too much. If we can avoid the cloud that would be my preference.

The express event is checked as frequently as possible: weekly (beginning of week). But, during the week trains will be arriving. The count is out of date until the start of the next week. Is that a possible explanation? You might put a message in the "Express Gauge" event: "math check reminder." Then run the game till that pops up. Pause as quick as you can and see if the math is right at that moment or not. If that doesn't explain things, please post up your save file (I need to know which express car set you are using to be able to load it).

[Grandma Ruth]

It's OK, before I even read your post I've found out what my simple, simple problem is. It's because the Terr count was wrong - which I knew - it was the wrong thing being counted so of course it made the calculation be wrong. I've just put that right on the test game I've got and it's working now. So now I'll actually read your post!

[Grandma Ruth]

Yes, my daughter thinks I'm bonkers for using a spreadsheet for everything - recipes, shopping lists, you name it! A list is fine, we can just start another thread in this forum if you like, or just do it here, and each keep a copy in whatever format we like. I can let you know about things as I find them (which I would recommend) or send a list at the end of my testing or whatever works best for you. At the moment I'm playing the game having enjoyed the "surprise" so that is obviously throwing up different things than it would if you were still the original player. To test it as the original player I might have to borrow your saved game where you have actually managed to be the sole company before it triggers. I can't see me being able to reproduce that in a million years!

[RulerofRails]

You started this thread. Really it has been more of a technical discussion on how/whether the coding is working correctly. I think further progress would be fine here, but it's your call.

The notes I made so far are very rough:

Code: Select all

Warrington, June 16, 2022:
Iron notice from start... Is it good?

ledger: "Connected to Blaneau Ffestiniog" - Grammar

$25M PNW bonus is checking CASH!!!!! - should be net worth

Blaneau connection: check for cities connect. Check for no access to Midland.
Duplicate the open-up event to still reward a point for the connection.

1837 L&M report: fiddling "the the" stock market - Grammar

ledger: Express gauge shouldn't be visible till 1841.

Intro for express should be end of 1840, not 1841?

Here's my saved game, from the point where I could take out L&M. I believe I used the MSI installer to setup the game. The troop set I have doesn't match any of those available in the archive. I have included that in case you need it. I'm using the default blue express cars (Trainmaster_ Express_DefaultBlue.PK4).

You will notice that I didn't build Maintenance sheds. I was using the $10k Planets. And for the sake of reliability, the plan is to replace them before they need to be refilled with oil. You could rightly criticize me for being lazy to find the updates for engines. I don't have the cowboy engines. I didn't put the patch to allow engines forever (9999 end date for all locos). I forget if someone made a patch for the engine stats for TM or not (I think I had adapted Lirio's in a past install). On this install I have been focused on the industrial chains, and paying less regard to the engines themselves.

[Grandma Ruth]

Thanks! You said I couldn't cheat and now I'm going to do the ultimate cheat by using your game!!!!!!!!!!
I like the iron notice at the start - I think it distracts the player from the serious business of playing the stock market, which can only be a good thing.
You've picked up on some of the same things I've got on my list, good. Without them, here it is:

Event 1841 - lanc: and Event 1841 - ches: both these events are superfluous if the player (now L&M) has already taken over BR. By now British Rail doesn't exist. L&M already has access to Lancashire & Cheshire due to owning British Rail. Could a test if BR exists be made a condition instead of firing and annoying the player? Otherwise remove or change sub-headline.

Event Stat wales and Event stat - fest should not trigger if the player is playing as L & M as this company already has access to these territories. This is a problem because the notices take up room on the status page needed for other things.

City no. 43 is Northampton (spelling) And the AI company will be Northampton Eastern
Available industries: disable non-British industries cotton, rice paddies, oil well, rubber trees, vineyard (historical realism)
Event 1848: "George Stephenson" continues in post after his death

Event Steel - yorkshire: dialog should say "Warrington Bank Quay" rather than "Warrington" to avoid confusion
Event stat - steel: something is wrong, it picks up a count for steel before you've hauled any steel at all

Event Stat - bakewell: fires before Event 1860. They should be simultaneous or Event 1860 goes first
Event 1853: I would delete this. Historically interesting but doesn't match the gameplay, where WBQ exists in 1830

[Gumboots]

I agree that ledger presentation is a bit of an art. I really hoped someone would give me some feedback on the SCBC ledger. I made quite some effort on that, but I believe it can be refined further.

I did look at one of the betas for SCBC but never played it through all the way. I'll grab a copy of the latest version and take a look over the weekend.

I will make some effort to make this ledger better too. And, Gumboots, if you have some general guidelines on the format I would be interested in that.

One thing I do is minimise the raggedness of the lines of text. Centre-aligned text is more difficult to read than left-aligned. This is a known issue in typography, and it's due to the lines of text not having a consistent starting point that your eye can catch. If you deliberately choose text content to equalise the length of each line as much as possible, it becomes easier to read at a glance.

Also, if possible I arrange things so that if some lines have to be significantly shorter or longer there is an even progression in line length from one to the next. Again, this is to lead the eye to the next starting point as smoothly as possible. This requires thinking of various ways to phrase and display the necessary information, and checking the result. It can't be so distorted that it doesn't feel right, or that it isn't clear what it should mean.

Sometimes I incorporate white space and dividers if possible (depends how much you have to cram in). This is like the trick you can use in the editor, where particular events (often inconsequential ones) are deliberately used as a visible divider to make long lists of events easier to decipher. Basically, if there is another line available on the status page it makes sense to use it, just to give things some breathing room. Wasted lines are just wasted, so throw in a blank line or a divider (ie: ~-------~) to split things visually into logical chunks.

That's about all there is to it.

[Grandma Ruth]

I need help thinking this one through - I now have a target of 99% express. This year I got, of course, 91%. If I increase massively the amount of express I haul - will that help? Or will it just put up the overall 100% ? Should I, in fact, decrease the amount of express I haul? This is presuming the AI is going to keep on hauling the same amount, no reason to think they won't. Can't get my head round it today.

[Gumboots]

No idea. Would depend on the overall event logic. Is the express haulage critical to the game goals, or optional?

[RulerofRails]

@Gumboots, I lost the last batch of changes to SCBC. I will try to get them re-done later today and post that. Maybe I should put up variable usage notes as well. Let's see what I can do. Also, I didn't make any effort on justification of the text. Thanks for the notes about that and other. Gives me some new ideas.

If I increase massively the amount of express I haul - will that help? Or will it just put up the overall 100% ? Should I, in fact, decrease the amount of express I haul? This is presuming the AI is going to keep on hauling the same amount, no reason to think they won't.

Event: Express Point award
Is the one that sets the target. It checks for CV1 > CV3. The way that the event works, setting CV3 with CV1, means that if your target was 20% but you actually manage 50%, your new target will be 58% and not 28%. But CV3 (the target) should never be decreased.

Decreasing amount of express wont help. Part of the idea with this mechanic is to encourage the player to compete for express on the same routes as the AI are running. More effort there is probably your best option. However, 99% is a hard target. Realistically I think you are done at about 90%.

There is potential to refine the mechanism. For example above a certain percentage (say 70%) should the target increase by only 5% instead of 8? Obviously there should be a mechanism that prevents the target being larger than 100. I will fix this.