Windows 8

[acorn_farmer_84]

Hey, just read a rather interesting article on Windows 8, and the numerous issues associated with it.
Basically the main problem from what I have read seems to be that Microsoft is trying to copy Apples incredibly restrictive environment on IOS devices etc,
and to make a few brief quotes from the article:

Then you heard the echoes of other high-profile PC game backers, who vocalized their concerns about Windows 8, such as Blizzard's Rob Pardo and Minecraft creator Marcus "notch" Persson. "Stop trying to ruin the PC as an open platform," Persson told Microsoft, directly.

If you haven't been keeping up, here's the primary concern with Windows 8: This new OS sports a new "Metro" UI, which is now just referred to simply as the "Windows 8 UI." If a game developer -- or any developer -- wants their product to be compatible with all the fancy new UI features that Windows 8 offers, that software must be subject to Microsoft's policies, certified by Microsoft, and sold through the official Windows Store. But that's not a problem, right? Developers will still be able to make and sell games via the older desktop interface -- the open interface -- many have argued.
"To some degree, I think that [argument] is almost immediately obviated by two things," says Muratori. "First, with Windows RT, there's no desktop on Windows RT. On one entire SKU that Microsoft is shipping, that [argument] is not relevant, because RT is not shipping with a desktop. So everything that ships on that platform goes through Microsoft.

These are what we hear are the most common concerns from the game development community:
-That Microsoft won't allow their digital stores onto the new interface, and that they'll have to pay a toll to Microsoft to get on the official store.
- That even if they can get onto the new UI with their app, there are concerns of being marginalized. The PC game installs look orphaned, compared to the Xbox Live-enabled content and games.
- That currently, to anyone’s knowledge, there's no rolling launcher that can take you seamlessly back and forth between the new UI and the old desktop interface. If there isn’t, then it inhibits PC games from being able to seamlessly launch games from the new UI in a couch-TV setting. This locks up that experience for the Xbox content that is featured on the new Windows 8 UI.
- There are still so many unknowns about Windows 8.

So we know the reasons why many PC game developers are wary of Windows 8, but if Windows 8 is so bad, what's the ideal -- the ultimate -- PC game OS?
Well, there's the open-source Linux, a platform that Valve's Newell said could be an option for game developers if this whole Windows 8 thing doesn't pan out. Steam now supports Linux, and Newell said games can be key to platform adoption.
Muratori argues that Linux just isn't stable enough, and it would take a concerted effort by big developers to make Linux a truly viable option. Who knows -- maybe Valve would spearhead such an initiative.

You can read the full article at http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/1801 ... e_devs.php


Just wondering what everyone's views on it are? Personally if Microsoft continues down this path, Windows will lose it's status as the premier gaming OS,
with gamers wither sticking with older versions of Windows, or slowly migrating over to Linux. If Microsoft refuses to work with developers in such a manor, then I see it as inevitable that developers will look for Greener pastures, and end up migrating to another OS such as Linux.

Oh and I just thought I might add that Windows seems to be moving more and more towards the 'Longhorn' style fears about Vista that I remember Hawk had an article about on here a few years back (not sure if its still around or not).

[Hawk]

Oh and I just thought I might add that Windows seems to be moving more and more towards the 'Longhorn' style fears about Vista that I remember Hawk had an article about on here a few years back (not sure if its still around or not).

You mean this article? http://hawkdawg.com/stuff/longhorn.htm

I have read that there are some folks running MSTS and RailWorks on a Win 8 system. I've also read somewhere that there is a third party program that will run in Win 8 that will make it look and work like Win 7.
I'll see if I can find that article.

[acorn_farmer_84]

Yeah that's the article Hawk.

From what I've read (which I must admit is fairly limited), it seems as if there is two different 'breeds' of Windows 8,
one which allows you to install 3rd patty applications, and use it in a similar manor to Windows 7 through visual modifications as you mention.

Then there is another breed, being the 'RT' version, which seems to be the one that shops "without the desktop", thereby not letting you install 3rd party applications etc at all, and limiting you to applications from the Windows Marketplace. Apparently this type is based on 'ARM processors', which again I must confess I don't know much about. In my mind this 'RT' version sounds similar to an i-phone, where unless you gaol break the device (which may not be possible with RT), you are only able to install applications from Apples Appstore, in contrast to an Android device where the user is free to install applications from any source of their choosing.

All seems a bit troubling from what I understand of it, and it seems like they are trying to force PC users down the path towards being more like console users, and loosing all the customisation features that make the PC a far superior platform in my opinion.

Cheers,

[Hawk]

To the best of my knowledge, from what I've read, the RT version does not (or should not be) install[ed] on a desktop or a laptop. It's only for those pad thingies and phones.
It's the other version that is for desktops and laptops.

I'm still running XP.

[Blackhawk]

The RT version is the locked version that is really just for some tablets or devices like that. The desktop/laptop version of Win8 is not as restricted as RT. That said having used the developer's edition of win8 I'm not impressed with it. I almost never use the new "metro" menu. With the old start menu i could search for the program I wanted, with metro it's too cluttered so I just immediately type what i'm looking for and I waste less time. I heard in the beta people were developing ways to get around the metro code and go back to the legacy code (start menu) which MS was not pleased with and tried to remove the ability for that to happen in later beta versions and the final release. For most daily use on the desktop it's about the same as win7/vista until you need something from the start menu or need to adjust some settings/control panel things (or even shut down the computer).

Microsoft's CEO seems to fail to understand that sometimes things that aren't broken, don't need to be fixed. Vista was a failure of an update over XP (and the search algorium in XP was much better than Vista/7.) Also the Office products going to the "ribbon" is another failure in my opinion. They say it makes things easier to find and do. In my experience it's much more difficult, and it messes with people who already knew where everything was... now they have to relearn the program. (At my work we're still using office 2003). In addition, it had some of the strangest default settings. It was something like 1.5 line spacing i think.

This push to make the same operating system for phones, tablets, and computers is just the latest push by MS to neglect it's PC market which, although it is shrinking, is still an important market. A laptop to me is so much more valuable than an tablet. I can do everything on the laptop that i can do on the tablet and more.

[Hawk]

Here's a link that may help with understanding Win 8 RT.

http://windowssecrets.com/top-story/whe ... indows-rt/

Here's a link to a great forum about Win 8.

http://windowssecrets.com/forums/forumdisplay.php/66

Here's some links about how to get Win 8 to look and act more like Win 7, or even XP.

http://reviews.cnet.co.uk/software-and- ... -50009546/

http://www.tomsguide.com/us/win8-win7-i ... -1784.html

http://www.pcworld.com/article/261980/g ... erves.html

[acorn_farmer_84]

Hmmm, well I had a little read of some of the apps, and as you said, it seems that the 'normal' version of Windows 8 can be modded to make it look and behave more like Windows 7, which is nice. As you mentioned Blackhawk, it seems Microsoft is'nt exactly supportive of the practice, and it looks like its reasonably possible that Microsoft might take steps in the future to prevent such modification, and 'force' users to use their Metro UI.

I'd also totally agree with Blackhawk on the fact that this so called 'upgrade' is'nt really an upgrade at all, like if anything Windows 8 looks more like a downgrade to me,
there doesnt appear to be any kinda of new features that would be useful to me, and on the contrary is seems to be loaded up with all kinda of 'bloatware' and useless junk, that users will need to go out of their way to disable.

How on earth Microsoft thinks that this is what their users want is beyond me....... hopefully they will continue to offer Windows 7 for purchase.

The idea of having the same OS running on PC/Phone/Tablet also seems rather strange to me. Each platform is different, and comes with different needs, trying to have a one size fits all approach will simply result in nobody getting what they want. Just seems more like they have run out of ideas for any real upgrades to Windows, so instead they are trying to change things for the sake of change, to try and get a cash injection into the company....

It just seems like they are trying to imitate Apples success, without really thinking it through, and considering if an Apple style model will be successful with their own customers, and practices.

Anyways... I think that's enough rambling from me for one post haha

[Gumboots]

There's nothing wrong with running the same OS on different devices. It's the actual GUI you want to change. Desktop GUI is not good for tablets, and vice versa.

I agree that MS seems to have screwed things up with W8. I'll be sticking with W7. It's looking to me as if MS have effectively recreated the Vista debacle. They went from a good (for its day) OS, XP, to a very badly performing Vista that was released way before it was really ready. Consequently, a lot of people stuck with XP. W7 is a very good OS, and has been described as what Vista should have been. I suspect that a lot of people will stick with W7 and give W8 a miss, in the hope that perhaps MS will wake up before they release W9.

Re the OP: Linux is actually very stable, and is exceptionally good for servers. The problem with Nix for desktop is not stability of Nix as such. It's that there are so many different projects developing their own flavours of Nix. Traditionally, Nix has a been very much a do your own thing OS, with groups splintering off all over the place. This means little or no standardisation, which makes third party apps hard to develop.

Ubuntu realised this was a problem, and is trying to do something about it. As a result, Ubuntu is thoroughly loathed by a lot of Nix enthusiasts.