RRT3 with a modern mouse

[undertoad]

I just bought a better mouse, as the previous "micro-mouse" was completely driving me nuts: I could never get the pointer in just the right place, and the pointer speed was really uneven.

This was a problem everywhere in Windows. But I admit that I noticed the problem most in RRT3. Not that I spend a lot of time in RRT3...

The mouse I bought was the Microsoft Comfort 4500: a traditionalist, big'n'chunky object, but with fancy Lazzzrrr-assisted tracking. The scroll wheel has continuous rather than notched movement - but I think I'm getting used to that.

Anyway, to the problem and the solution. At first I just used the default Plug'n'Pray standard USB mouse driver that Windows (7 64-bit) automatically installed. Horrors! Zooming in and out in RRT3 using the mouse wheel was hopeless, no matter how much I adjusted RRT's settings. Sometimes it would zoom, sometimes not.

This was a terrible result, as I'd spent £££ on this mouse specifically to make me more productive in my work... err.... actually, to make playing RRT3 more fun .

The answer turned out to be remarkably simple. I downloaded the full Microsoft drivers. Apparently this mouse (and perhaps other modern mice) sends less than one line's movement at a time through the scroll-wheel. Perhaps this makes for more precise or smoother scrolling in applications which support it.

In a remarkably good bit of driver design, you can specify specific applications (so, in this case, RRT3.exe) that don't like this behaviour. The driver then reverts to the "traditional" signal from the wheel, just for these applications. Problem solved!

Hope this helps other people as well!

[Gumboots]

Funny. I use a Logitech mouse and it's fine with RT3. Personally I like the non-notchy scroll wheel. Once you get used to it, it's a lot better than the old type.

I'm not familiar with the MS Comfort 4500, but the one I use is quite chunky (I have fairly big hands), asymmetric to fit the hand well (I hate symmetric mice) and has a forward/back button on the thumb side (great for fast and easy browsing).

I've found the key with Logitech mice is to NOT install any drivers. Just plug it in and use it. IME installing the drivers makes it misbehave.

[Hawk]

I use 2 *mouses; both Logitech, although one could be any brand (scroll wheel), for all intents and purposes.
My primary mouse is a trackball.

I got used to using a trackball many years ago with a Microsoft brand that has long since met it's demise with the advent of XP (it only worked in Win 98 and earlier since it required specific drivers that were not updated for XP).

The reason I have 2 mouses connected is because the trackball doesn't allow zoom in games, so I use a regular scroll wheel mouse when I need to zoom in or out.
The trackball does require installation of Logitech drivers to function properly, but those same drivers can be used for both mouses, especially since the scroll wheel is also a Logitech brand, but any brand can still be adjusted through the Logitech control panel.

All that said; since I still use XP, I don't have problems in RT3, or any game for that matter.

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* - Manually-Operated User-Select Equipment - So I guess mouses would be the proper plural use.

[RulerofRails]

On the topic of the mouse, does anyone use the "Color Mouse Cursor" option in the Graphics settings? I don't.

I'm also a Logitech user (V450). In 5+ years, only thing that's happened is the grips on the side have slowly worn through. It's symmetrical and has the notched wheel. It's not a huge mouse, probably don't want any smaller. I can't stand the mini varieties. Interesting alternatives you use. The "what I'm used to" argument is strong here.

I don't know much about mouses, but it seems that Logitechs have some of the better battery life stats. 1 year life for the model I have, some of the more recent ones are 3 years! Even using cheap batteries you forget that they need to be changed. This is the reason to spend maybe $20-30 for a mouse instead of the $6-10 varieties that will chew a set of batteries every month or two.

Hawk, you can always zoom in RT3 by holding the Right mouse button and dragging up and down (right and left will rotate). For some reason it's not perfectly reliable for me, seeming to "stick" sometimes, rotation seems much more reliable so it's likely a game thing. Also not as fast as the scroll wheel, but I will use it if I want a finer zoom level than my notched scroll wheel provides.

When I first played the game I used Shift + the arrows for movement and zoom. Now I hardly ever touch the keyboard when playing.

Also, when using a scroll wheel mouse, I don't see the point of the "Middle mouse button zooms/rotates camera" option. For me the scroll wheel isn't a "Middle" button according to RT3. Maybe drivers would fix that, but I'm with Gumboots in not using unneeded extra drivers. I move around by holding both left and right mouse buttons down. Mainly use the default "Locked angle - Continuous" camera setting.

[Hawk]

On the topic of the mouse, does anyone use the "Color Mouse Cursor" option in the Graphics settings? I don't.

I don't like the color mouse cursor.

Hawk, you can always zoom in RT3 by holding the Right mouse button and dragging up and down (right and left will rotate).

I can rotate by holding the right mouse button and working the ball, but zooming doesn't work because you don't drag a trackball. It's stationary.
I do have the "Right mouse button zooms/rotates camera" ticked in the settings, but that doesn't work for zooming with a trackball.

Also, when using a scroll wheel mouse, I don't see the point of the "Middle mouse button zooms/rotates camera" option.

Never tried that option. A regular scroll wheel mouse works fine for zooming with the scroll wheel. That's why I have both mouses hooked up; so I can use them both, but I still use the trackball primarily, even for gaming.

I move around by holding both left and right mouse buttons down. Mainly use the default "Locked angle - Continuous" camera setting.

I use the "Free - Any Angel" for my camera controls.

[Hawk]

I started using a trackball back when you still had to use mouse pads and I just got frustrated with them. When the time came when mouse pads were no longer needed I had already got used to a trackball so I just stayed with it.

[Gumboots]

I don't like the color mouse cursor...

I use the "Free - Any Angle" for my camera controls.

Same here. Can't stand using locked camera angle. Drives me nuts.

[RulerofRails]

Well, Hawk, those trackballs aren't lookers, but I'm glad that they work well for you.

I'm so used to the continuous camera. I actually like that it's predictable. It also seems to react a bit quicker. Do you guys use the same angle for bird's eye view as when zoomed in close to the ground or do you adjust each time?

I did think of one time I still use the Shift+ left/right arrow keys: when laying track. So, when I have the left mouse button held down for a potential track lay. Good for comparing pricings and grades on potential alignments when I don't want to drop right into ground level.

Come to think of it, I would use the free angle camera much more if there were hotkeys to control the angle. Let me know if anybody works them out. I just went to 1.06 debug mode, but didn't see anything there.

Side-note: When looking through the debug menus I re-discovered the option to export/import text. Made for translation, but also handy for spell checks. A lot of maps could be done.

[Gumboots]

Do you guys use the same angle for bird's eye view as when zoomed in close to the ground or do you adjust each time?

Depends what I want to look at.

Side-note: When looking through the debug menus I re-discovered the option to export/import text. Made for translation, but also handy for spell checks. A lot of maps could be done.

Handy. I'd forgotten about that.

[Hawk]

Well, Hawk, those trackballs aren't lookers, but I'm glad that they work well for you.

Yep. The Logitech I currently use works great for me.

Do you guys use the same angle for bird's eye view as when zoomed in close to the ground or do you adjust each time?

I think you're talking about following the train. The free camera angle works there too.

I did think of one time I still use the Shift+ left/right arrow keys: when laying track. So, when I have the left mouse button held down for a potential track lay. Good for comparing pricings and grades on potential alignments when I don't want to drop right into ground level.

I never used the Shift key with the LMB when laying track. I just hold the LMB until I'm happy with the track placement, then release the LMB.
What does the Shift key help with?

Side-note: When looking through the debug menus I re-discovered the option to export/import text. Made for translation, but also handy for spell checks. A lot of maps could be done.

Never used the debug mode. If I want to edit text I just use copy/paste in the editor.

[RulerofRails]

What does the Shift key help with?

Doesn't help track laying except perhaps improve quality: better actionable info on potential fill height and curve when scouting routes. My point was that sometimes I rotate the camera while checking out a track lay (holding down LMB). I use the Shift+Arrow keys for this. This happens while the LMB is down. Don't do it all the time.

When I'm serious about track laying: Scroll wheel does the zoom, Arrow keys move, and Shift + Arrow keys rotate. LMB and mouse position is devoted to the important task: track laying. Of course, not the only way to do it.

[Hawk]

Hmmm? I just tried it, holding down the Shift key, and saw no difference. With or without the Shift key I still get the gradients and cost of track. Nothing more. Nothing less.

What do you get that I don't?

I can still rotate the camera with the RMD and scroll with the arrow keys. Plus with my mouse settings I can click the LMB, hold it for a second or two, then release it and it will hold the track laying, making it easier to use the RMB. Then when I'm happy with the track I just click the LMB again and it's built.
I've haven't found anything the Shift key does so far, other than Shift+E.

[RulerofRails]

The Shift key has NO function in track laying itself. The only thing it does for me is to rotate the camera during track laying. That's Shift+Right Arrow key and Shift+Left Arrow key.

Since you can hold the track laying without having the LMB held down, as you explained, you can already rotate during track lay without the keyboard. Don't worry about it. BTW, this isn't a recommended procedure, just something I do sometimes. With my settings as you can guess, I must have LMB down to hold a track lay.

I know that rotating the camera while holding a track lay probably seems absurd. After all, when rotating the camera, your cursor position on held-track-lay may also change. So, held-track-lay may not be the exactly the same (for example when swinging around to check the curve versus fill). I compensate for that by moving the mouse a little to "track" rotation. I have trouble seeing how this usage is possible with the mouse only, but I never gave it a serious try. The whole process might be madness in the first place.

I was already in the habit of using the Arrow keys for movement (personal preference over Edge of Screen) whenever in track laying mode because my normal LMB+RMB combination doesn't work (I believe LMB is reserved for track lay). So, my left-hand is normally ready-to-go in this situation anyway.

Because the game has an Undo on track, there is always the option to lay whatever track and then check after. This is much simpler.

One niggle with Undo is that after using it near a curve the end-piece of the previous track may be angled (sometimes sharply). Yes, you can straighten it or undo more track (straight connections don't get the angle bug), but that also takes time. I believe I settled on this method partly as a workaround for that: active scouting to limit the use of Undo.

Just to be clear what I'm talking about with the Undo feature, here's a picture when I attempted the same lay over and over. Please note that the two clips which show the actual end piece relate to the curve to their right.

Realistically, you might only use Undo once or twice, but I went further to show the trend. Even the second instance is noticeably sharper than the original and will slow your trains more (Side-note: I recently read in the patch notes that in the early period curves slow trains more.)

Here's me straightening the badly kinked track, this involved some extra track lays and further Undos to help convince the track end-piece to swing back to near-normal. This process can be a little difficulty in tight situations around buildings. The finished product isn't quite as wide an arc as the original on the far left above, but pretty close. Sometimes it helps to actual point the end in the opposite direction first, but it's a fiddly thing overall.

[Hawk]

I don't use the Edge of Screen. I never did like that. Plus with multiple monitors it doesn't always work. I guess even in game the mouse sees the edge of the left and right monitors as edge of screen instead of the edge of the game screen. So I just use the arrow keys.

[Gumboots]

I often just delete the last track section, to get rid of the kinked end, and lay from there. I've found that it's impossible to get it as good otherwise. This is quicker and easier than messing around with undo, and the cost of a single track section isn't significant.

[Cash on Wheels]

Hmmm? I just tried it, holding down the Shift key, and saw no difference. With or without the Shift key I still get the gradients and cost of track. Nothing more. Nothing less.


What do you get that I don't?

I can still rotate the camera with the RMD and scroll with the arrow keys. Plus with my mouse settings I can click the LMB, hold it for a second or two, then release it and it will hold the track laying, making it easier to use the RMB. Then when I'm happy with the track I just click the LMB again and it's built.
I've haven't found anything the Shift key does so far, other than Shift+E.

Here's something fun you can do with the SHIFT key:

1. When the game is not paused zoom all the way to ground.
2. Hit SHIFT+W then wait a few seconds
3. then hit SHIFT+L in rapid succession.
4. feel the power.
5. Tell me what you saw.

Or go to settings during the game and look up "hot keys" some are useful!

[Gumboots]

Tried it. Nothing happened.