RT3 running on Windows 10

[thietavu]

Well... When you try to haul heavy freight in Sichuan province (next to Tibet) from Chengdu to Xi'an, that's one of the rare situations in Great China map when Big Boys and the other Monsters of that era are genuinely useful - at least for a while. :) What I love about that huge map is its insanity. The distances, for example, are insane. And that often makes you really consider the available options. Take Mongolia. The only somewhat large and commercially viable city there is, of course, the capital Ulaanbaatar. But you also have to connect it to about ten very small towns very far away in very tough geography...

Reaching Tibet is another tough challenge. Huge distances, horrible geography, almost no businesses anywhere... But it has to be done. The same in Myanmar. Perhaps the most difficult terrain RRT3 has ever seen. And yet, a railroad must be built through it to Bangladesh and India. And so on. I've played this map hundreds of times, and every single time it surprises me one way or another. ;)

This is, I think, also one of the maps where different engines really make a difference. At the end of Great China (if you survived long enough) you can easily have a fleet of 400+ locomotives running. Wrong choices there can kill your mission.

It's funny, you know... Some, if not most people here seem to like short challenges where one needs to do certain things with limited resources and time. For some reason, I'm not interested in that. I love huge, open challenges that can take tens of hours and a lot of imagination. It's no wonder I don't play "casual mobile games". Only deep simulations and huge adventures like Fallout 4, Skyrim and the like. And, of course, Civilization! :)

[Gumboots]

I don't mind a long and complex game, but frankly I find managing any more than about 200 trains just gets to be too much of a chore, and loads the computer up too much for decent performance. I couldn't get enthused about any game that requires 400 trains, just because of the practicalities involved.

[thietavu]

I don't mind a long and complex game, but frankly I find managing any more than about 200 trains just gets to be too much of a chore, and loads the computer up too much for decent performance. I couldn't get enthused about any game that requires 400 trains, just because of the practicalities involved.

I understand that. And it is possible to play that map with maybe even just 200 engines, but a part of the challenge is actually in managing these big fleets of engine classes. For example, say, you have purchased something like 100 engines of very short economical or operational life span, and they all start breaking up or becoming very expensive (or too weak) at the same time, how will your company survive - especially if hard times are at hand?

In my experience, RRT3 engine can handle about 400 engines without too much trouble if your computer is relatively powerful (mine is already 5 years old, so one doesn't need a supercomputer). I have played it through with 700 engines once. Things became pretty slow, but it was possible.

[RulerofRails]

The way I play it, TM requires more management to get industry production right. Great China is interesting because it sounds like maybe you are playing it with more of a RT3, mainly auto consists, method? Is it meant to be played that way?

I always thought that if I got a free week I would play your map. Unfortunately that hasn't happened yet. I tend to play one game in a max of maybe 3 sessions. Once I start, I don't do much else on the computer till I finish that map. Once again, this sounds quite different to the way that you enjoy playing the game.

[thietavu]

The way I play it, TM requires more management to get industry production right. Great China is interesting because it sounds like maybe you are playing it with more of a RT3, mainly auto consists, method? Is it meant to be played that way?

I always thought that if I got a free week I would play your map. Unfortunately that hasn't happened yet. I tend to play one game in a max of maybe 3 sessions. Once I start, I don't do much else on the computer till I finish that map. Once again, this sounds quite different to the way that you enjoy playing the game.

I play Great China mostly with auto consists, although there are some places (especially when hauling oil, coal, bauxite or iron) where manual control is needed. GC needs a very unique approach to everything, because lack of resources or passengers rarely is a problem (well, this is a simulation of real East Asia, after all - not a "game map"). Challenges are elsewhere. Distances, for example. It is also almost necessary to build several stations to largest cities, just like in real life - there is just too much traffic otherwise.

I like to make the game more interesting to me by using different kinds of engines in different countries. For example, in India and Bangladesh I use British engines only - because that's the way it pretty much happened. In Korea I like to use American engines in the south and Russian designs in the north - for obvious reasons. Russian engines (and some German types like Kriegslok!) for Mongolia as well. And so on. Some areas like Hong Kong - Canton - Macao corridor I like to electrify very early. Sometimes I leave some rural branch lines running very old steam - like China and other countries did in real life - as long as possible. Some steamers in the game can survive for a loooooong time in light traffic. ;)

GC isn't, really, a "game" - it's much more a simulation. A lot like the game Civilization. Which tells a lot about how brilliant the developers were when making Railroad Tycoon 3 engine! :)

[Fltrunner88]

Wondering if anyone can help me. I have Windows 10 and am able to run RRT3 in Vista Compatibility Mode with the vista fix and all the patches (including 1.6). My issue is that it runs extremely slow (always less than 10fps and usually less than 5fps). This is on any graphical setting (even the lowest low). I have tried the windowed mode as someone previously suggested in this forum but the game crashes at the main menu. I have tried restarting my pic and making sure no other programs are running (startup etc.). I know it's not an issue of power - it's not a brand new pc but I can run many newer games (the new Sim City and Europa Universalis 4 etc) with no problems. I loved this game when I had my old laptop (ran vista) and would love to play it again. Any suggestions would be helpful! Thank you!

[RulerofRails]

I don't have Win10. You could try this. If your problem is related to your graphics solution, it may help.

[Private Codex]

Hi

I just installed RT3 on a new Windows 10 machine, after not playing it for many years (so it's great to find this community!). I used a method not detailed here so thought I'd pass it on, as I used my original old cds and didn't have to run it in any compatibility modes or turn off hardware T&L as the "Vista fix" config does. The post above about slow running of the game might benefit from this method, as using compatibility modes and turning off hardware T&L puts more load on the CPU.

See here for the fix (related to the Wine OpenGL fix I saw in another thread here I guess, but this worked perfectly for me and is probably even better on Win10):
https://www.reddit.com/r/tycoon/comment ... s_10_in_a/

Essentially you just put 3 files into the main RT3 directory which convert old D3D8 instructions to more modern Direct3D11 which means it runs perfectly on Win10.

The exact steps I went through, for any who have problems:

- Insert the install CD and install the game

- Download the Coast-to-Coast expansion from this forum (thanks!). I copied this download into the RT3 folder (in "Program Files (x86)"). Then right-clicked on it and chose "run as administrator", then made sure the extraction pointed to the same RT3 folder in "Program Files (x86)" - make sure it is not trying to go to the other "Program Files" Win 10 has for 64 bit programs.

- Download the 1.05 patch from this forum and install the same way as the Coast-to-Coast expansion (again, check the path, this patch was going to "Program Files" by default when I checked it.

- Download the "dgVoodoo2 Library" as per the reddit thread above (so from http://dege.freeweb.hu/). Copy the three .dll files under the "MS" folder in the download and just paste them into your RT3 folder.

- Insert the "play" CD / CD2 and run the game.

Everything worked first time for me and runs super-smooth.

[Private Codex]

Just to add to my previous post (not sure how long it takes posts from new members to be approved), I see in other threads it is suggested you don't install RT3 in "Program Files (x86)" as per default, rather choose your own location, which is probably good advice (then you won't have to run the patches as administrator in my process above).

edit: And make sure "disable hardware T&L" is unchecked in Settings-Graphics or the terrain won't be rendered properly. If this fix is working there is no need for hardware T&L to be disabled, but it is disabled by default in GOG versions or if you have used "Vista fix".

[RulerofRails]

I'm back with a report on the dgVoodoo wrapper. Bear in mind this is with Win 8.1. Working nicely except for one niggle, screenshots don't work in fullscreen mode. We can't have it all I guess.

This solution sets it's own limit on Video RAM size for the virtual card so the exe file patched against that is little use. Because the default VRAM is 1024MB 64MB, we have blurry textures unless we run the included dgVoodoo2setup exe file, which is really just configuration setup. Clicking "Apply" stores the current settings inside your AppData folder by default. The location can be changed, also I think it's possible to have multiple configurations if needed, but consult the documentation for that.

So, the important thing is the DirectX page to set Video RAM to anything above 64MB 512MB. Something else that's nice is to turn off the watermark.


I adjusted some settings in General as well to get the game working well in fullscreen, but I'm not sure if these things will apply to others. For what it's worth, here are my settings:

Just remember that this is not a "recommended" setup, just what worked in my case. (There's no need to worry about the "Glide" tab because RT3 doesn't use it.)

PS.
My opinion at the moment is that despite the screenshot bug I encountered, this is a better solution than the Wine3d one. Performance seems better, higher frame rate, etc.. Also, the Wine3d one wasn't 100% reliable at avoiding blurry textures. (I have no idea why only some of the buildings might revert.) But this solution with the VRAM limited to 512MB hasn't failed once.


Oct, 2017 ETA: After a lot more running I now recommend setting Video RAM to the maximum of 1024MB.
Nov, 2019 Edit: strike added for clarity/correction.

[Private Codex]

Interesting, thanks for testing it RulerofRails. Will try adjusting my settings too.

[Gumboots]

I'm back with a report on the dgVoodoo wrapper. Bear in mind this is with Win 8.1. Working nicely except for one niggle, screenshots don't work in fullscreen mode. We can't have it all I guess.

This solution sets it's own limit on Video RAM size for the virtual card so the exe file patched against that is little use. Because the default VRAM is 1024MB, we have blurry textures unless we run the included dgVoodoo2setup exe file, which is really just configuration setup. Clicking "Apply" stores the current settings inside your AppData folder by default. The location can be changed, also I think it's possible to have multiple configurations if needed, but consult the documentation for that.

So, the important thing is the DirectX page to limit Video RAM to 512MB.

Ok,this got me thinking.

It makes sense that 1024 meg VRAM being reported to the game would result in blurry textures. That's the amount I had back when I was putting up with the blurry problem.

There were two versions of the fix: the first being a basic hard limit, with no checking for actual VRAM, that basically stopped the game even looking anywhere else. This was the one he made with a twelve byte edit to the .exe. His improved version, the full patch to the .exe, still lets the game check for low VRAM and reduce settings if it finds that. He said this was better in that it would still work normally on a low-powered box, but that it would also require more processing since it had to do a check for VRAM. The first version (hard limit/no check) should be slightly better for performance.

So what I'm thinking is the best option may be to patch the .exe but do it with the original code from the.dll, so the game never gets a chance to find out how much VRAM there really is. This should be fine, as long as you don't have a low-powered box where you actually need the reduced settings.

This should, I think, not knowing much about this stuff, allow running 1 gig and upwards in Voodoo settings while still fooling the game that the VRAM is under 1 gig. Which might, if it works, give better gfx performance.

Yes? No? Maybe?

Edit: Had another thought. So he reckons even 1.5 gig is under the signed limit. Ok, if that's the case then why would a 1 gig card cause the problem? Could it have something to do with the "Vista fix"? That basically offloads gfx processing to the CPU, so is it possible that with Hardware T&L disabled the game looks at CPU RAM instead of the gfx card's VRAM, then flips out because it finds 8 gig or whatever?

[Gumboots]

Ok, just tried it out on 1.05 with the no-cd patch, and the other (non-Voodoo) patches removed, with D3DCompiler_47 added to my Windows/SysWOW64 directory.

It works. By gum does it work. I've never seen the game look like that before.

I've only given it a brief test because I'm totally knackered tonight and seriously need some sleep, but it seems stable so far with Hardware T&L enabled. There's no immediate CTD. Textures are brilliantly clear, with virtual VRAM set to 512 meg.

I did notice one slight glitch, in that when first opening the game I get some error pop-ups about a missing .dll library. This only seems to happen a couple of times, then the game works normally. It's just a case of starting the game a couple of times before it will open and run. If it continues to work after needing a few more clicks at the start, that will be fine by me.

Anyway I now have water reflections, for the first time ever. The general lighting and shading is a whole new level compared to what I'm used to. The models and skins look far better than before. Well, in general they do. There are a couple of glitches with my A1 Berkshire, simply because the game's lighting and shading are now so good that I can actually tell where the borked normals are on that model. I knew they were there, and I had already fixed them in Blender, but I'd never bothered testing the fixes because the model always looked so dull and flat that I couldn't spot the borked normals during gameplay. I certainly can now.

The Schools beta with teh piratey skin is much better now. Before this fix it was very dark and dull, and the transition between A and B skins badly blurred and pixellated the skull and crossbones logo and the pinstriping on the boiler banding. I had been thinking that I'd need to use much coarser pinstriping and ditch the pirate logo to get it looking good. Now need now. It's perfect. Looks as good in the game as it does in Photoshop.

I'll test it some more this week and see what else happens.

[RulerofRails]

Didn't read the readme closely enough. Maybe it was the colors. That is his color scheme for the icon etc.. No further comment. Definitely a good product nonetheless.

Anyway, I checked and turns out I already have D3DCompiler_47.dll, author Microsoft. Maybe it's part of Win 8.1? It's definitely part of Windows 10, so anyone who found this thread because of the title shouldn't have to worry about it. However, the one this guy provided is larger, not sure if I should swap them out for a "test". Probably wont make a difference.

I'm sure you'll enjoy playing the game more with slick graphics.

[Gumboots]

If you want the readme's in normal-human colours I've already done the styling edits.

[RulerofRails]

Sure, if it's easy.

[Gumboots]

I found out why I'm getting the error messages. I'm betting it's because the version of D3DCompiler_47.dll that he provided is a version that is not suitable for an older OS like W7 (see answer here).

There are redistributable versions available for W7 and W8.1, but to get hold of them you have to download and install the entire Windozey SDK, which naturally has decide it doesn't want to install on my box.

It's possible (dunno) that the W8.1 version would work on W7. If not, I can ask over at his support thread and see if he has a W7 version handy. I suppose I should ask if he minds me redistributing restyled versions of his readmes too, just to be polite.

Anyway the game will run the way it is. It just grumbles a bit at first. It would probably even run better if this glitch was sorted.

[Gumboots]

Hey I just tried running the 234 H10 Doubles with Voodoo set to allow 1024 meg for the virtual gfx card, and with resolution forced at the native 1920x1200 for my monitor.

It works. Game runs smoothly. No blurry textures at all. It's stable with A skins at close range. Wheels are round like they should be.

It does seem to incur a slight performance hit, which I would put down to the higher res rather than the higher virtual VRAM (obviously). This is compared to what I was using earlier, which was RT3's standard 1600x1024 option.

The other slight glitch is that at times the cursor goes double, which can be a bit tricky, especially since when it goes double it also goes a bit slow and jerky. Most of the time the cursor is fine, but every so often it misbehaves for a bit.

What I will test later tonight is leaving Voodoo on 1024 VRAM, but not forcing 1920x1200 via Voodoo. Instead, I'll use the old uniws patch that operates directly on RT3's settings, and see if that will allow better performance than using Voodoo's external override for native res. I'm hoping that will also sort the cursor problem.

Edit: Gave it a quick one minute test. Doesn't seem like it will work. Uniws isn't stable anyway. I forgot that as soon as you go to windowed mode temporarily, the uniws setting freaks out and goes to a genuine 640x480. It also seems to accumulate crud in the config file, because there are now several 640x480 settings showing.

I think I may get a vanilla engine.cfg out of my file stash and replace all of mine with fresh copies, then throw uniws in the bin.

Anyway, the game runs really well on RT3's 1600x1024 res setting, with no Voodoo forcing of res but with 1024 meg of virtual VRAM. Good frame rates and no cursor glitches. It think that's looking like the best compromise. Getting it forced to 1920x1200 by Voodoo seems to be more trouble than it's worth. Even on 1600x1024 it's still streets ahead of where my installation was at before, so I'm happy. The ratio is slightly out for my screen (it really should be 1600x1000 or 1638x1024) but this difference is so small that's it's not noticeable, even when viewing train wheels in profile up close.

[RulerofRails]

Well, this is interesting, on my machine I had blurry textures at the default 1GB setting. If it works for you, use it. Good thing I put a disclaimer when posting the settings I use.

Have you tried taking a screenshot yet? That's what I haven't gotten working yet.

I initially tried some of the force modes especially in regard to getting screenshots to work. The attempts were unsuccessful, but I experienced the cursor issues in the process.

I'm using uniws at 1920x1080. Don't think I did anything special. I only rarely need windowed mode. The reversion and side-stepping needed is a little headache. I have the uniws patcher in each game folder so that I can click on that very easily when I want to restore my resolution to fullscreen mode (hardest part is manually navigating to the folder for that install, then the Data/Configuration folder).

Not perfect, but when I'm going to play for a couple of hours it's worth the 15-20 seconds.

[Gumboots]

Fair point. Ok, I'll keep uniws just in case I feel like using it. I tend to go into and out of full screen a lot when testing, and testing is what I've been doing, so naturally I got cheesed off. So I suppose the obvious solution is to use RT3's 1600x1024 for testing, then apply unwis if I'm actually going to play for some time.

I have to say though that the graphics really are pretty good on 1600x1024. I can only pick the difference when zoomed in close to an asset, and even then it's not enough to ruin my day.

One thing I did notice is that although water reflections work now, they're still jerky enough to be a bit annoying at fairly close range. Everything else is smooth, except for the rippling effect the water is supposed to have. That comes in lots of little jumps. They only really look good from flyover altitude, so I may still play with them switched off, at least when I have a game that is loading things up a bit. I think they would only start to look good if frame rates were consistently over 60 or so fps. Anything lower than 40 and they're a definite problem.