The following text is a compilation of what was salvaged from the old Gathering Forum. It contains postings from several different people.
Thanks goes out to Wolverine for putting this all together.
Hawk
Texas Tea
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I thought it would be kind of fun to get a topic going on each of the different scenarios/campaigns. In reading the different posts in this forum, there are ALOT of great examples given in explanation for a specific question. A post like this...and hopefully the others that'll get started...will be valuable for newbies, of which I'm one, to hear from guys like Kraelin, Mobius and the gang who seem to have gotten a pretty quick grasp on the game. With that said and without any further delay...
Any ideas from/for Texas Tea?
Here are a few of mine...
Buy every oil well that springs up as soon as you possibly can.
I started my revenue rolling in FW/Dal and got to the oil fields as quickly as possible.
Buy the automobile plant that appears in Okla City once the steel factories start kicking out steel and a tire factory appears.
An event challenge to connect to Mexico shows up pretty early in the game and asks if you want to pay the rights to get into Mexico. Click yes (this is a prerequisite for gaining a gold) and make a bee line fo Mey -hi- co.
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Try to get a refinery as well.
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BTW -- Texas Tea has a problem in that Houston is too far from the water to ever get the port it is programmed to get.
Yep, definately want to buy up some oil wells. Also there's money in the lumber trade here buying up both the logging camps and either buying or building lumber mills.
On this map I've found a start in Dallas-FW is viable but I prefer to capture the ports at Houston and/or Beaumont. Especially since I know that Beaumont is going to get a big oil field later. Usually that means an AI RR will have DFW and one of my early builds will be to interconnect to that. That way I have access to several big cities spread apart and the demand for cargo and express stays pretty high.
I've also found the AI usually struggles on this map, so unless you help them most of them will never be much which is too bad because I like to join up with 1 or 2 of the AI RRs to expand my access to the markets.
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i played texas-tea in multi last night. i won by never laying a single rail. i just bought oil and the plastics factory that uses it. everyone else was laying rail and going broke neglect the industry game and expect some losses.
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This is the first map where I attempted to use my trains to transport a raw good to another place for further processing, and also trying out custom consists. I started by connecting Austin and San Antonio, then joining up Waco and going on up into Dallas-Ft. Worth. Nothing too special in the way of revenues, I was just slowly building up my reserves to start going wild in the oil industry (hey, this is Texas, you gotta play the part right??).
I then built a spur out to Nacogdoches, where there was one oil well, which I bought and which was turning a tiny profit. However, I wanted the wild riches that the oil industry brought to the tycoons, and started searching for places to which to transport my black gold. It was only then I noticed there were no refineries on the map. So I waited for a little while. Still nothing. So I took a chance, took out a lot of bonds and built my own refinery in Waco. I guess I could have built the thing in Nacogdoches right where the oil was, but I thought I'd make more money with it elsewhere, and with me transporting the goods to it.
Word to the wise: do NOT do this until there's more than one oil well on the map. Your refinery, expensive enough to build at 2.4 mil, will bleed cash money until there are more wells on the map. They DO pop up fairly frequently, though all mine have appeared just in Nacogdoches, which to me seems a little weird because certainly Texas has more oil than that. Anyway, once I had the refinery supplied with enough oil to make about 5.5 loads a year, it was practically printing money. From there I bought territory rights to Mexico and started importing coffee (not much money in that good, so I just hauled it from Monterrey to Laredo and let it ship itself out from there). I had declined the offer to buy the rights for 95% off earlier in the game, so it cost me way more than necessary. If you're really a tycoon, you won't pass up such a cheap deal! Just remember you only have 5 years to connect Monterrey to your rail network after you accept that deal, otherwise it's millions out of your account.
After that, it was just playing the financial game to increase my PNW and the book value of the company. This was a really fun map, too, by the way. I marvel at the graphic engine's ability to so smoothly scroll from high up down to ground level. I thought I'd be playing the game mostly zoomed out, but with the 3d terrain it's just so darn fun to watch from up close. I especially love a good thunderstorm.
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wrote: i played texas-tea in multi last night. i won by never laying a single rail. i just bought oil and the plastics factory that uses it. everyone else was laying rail and going broke neglect the industry game and expect some losses.
Exactly why I took the engine table page off my site and replaced it with industry. Much more important. Well plus they gave us a print out of the list with the game.
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As I remember it there's a major oil field that pops up around Beaumont so operating in that area is a good idea. Typically my games on that map have had 2-4 wells right around Nacogdoches which, like you, I'll normally buy up if I can. Two changes I made to this map tho' -- first is fix Houston so it will get a port. Second is increase the demand for oil at ports so oil stays profitable--otherwise you'll eventually swamp on-the-map demand for oil and you'll have no reason (or way) to carry it. I don't worry about the Mexican coffee issue until late in the game. By then the extra money for access is no big deal -- it dent's the cash flow for the year but that's all.
With a few tweaks this is a map that plays very well in a free-form mode too.
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In my current game, Houston does have a port. Are you saying that occasionally it doesn't get one and always should?
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I know there was a problem in some or all of the beta versions of that map and my memory may be wrong here but I thought I saw it was still there in the final copy. If you look in the editor under one of the validation buttons doesn't it report that Houston is set to get a port but it won't get it because its too far from the water?
If that's not there or if Houston is getting a port despite that report, then never mind about that one!
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In about 15 games Houston has had a port maybe 1/3 of the time. And unless you want to create a stub end terminal there's no way to put even a large station and have the port part of the city.
I've had my best games starting Austin-San Antonio, going South to Corpus Christi, then SW to Mexico when the cheap access is offered. Then East from CC - Victoria, Houston, and Beaumont. If they are good enough I'll conntect Beaumont with Shreveport and the minor cities in between.
I know I have to connect Monterrey but sometimes it's not worth anything more than a small station. Unless there's a warehouse full of coffee. The supply from the coffee plantations are sufficient to make the quota over time.
The hardest part about getting gold is the personal fortune.
As to the buy buildings, not run trains variation: I've found that the close in, near cities, industries are priced out of reach, even if you sell a bond at the begining of the game. All of them have "histories". Building is cheaper and more profitable since you can choose location.
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I have lived in East TX for about 6 years now and have noticed a lot of oil related things...oil museums, drilling compaines every 3 feet, oil fields still readily in use, etc. How did they come to the conclusion that Nacogdoches was the center of oil in East TX when it clearly was not?? Anyone that does even a little bit of research would find the Kilgore, TX (near Tyler) was_THE_major_source of oil in Texas period, for a good while. Then more oil was discovered in west Texas and the east Texas wells looked like they were losing money compared to what was being pulled in out there. In fact, there were so many oil wells in Kilgore at one time that the state government came out with "spacing" laws, which said one well couldn't be within "x" number of feet of another. To my knowledge, Nacogdoches never had a substantial amount of oil, or at least not nearly as much as what they hauled out of Kilgore.
Any thoughts??
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wrote: The hardest part about getting gold is the personal fortune.
About every 5 years (assuming a couple of 'natural' stock splits along the way) I'd start buying back stock to drive the price up quickly at the end of the year to get the price above $100/share to thus force a split. This doubles your holdings in the company and will drive your PNW up. Then, in December of the last year, I bought back stock til I was just above $15 mil in company money, then started buying stock with my own money and margin money til I was about the $15 mil PNW target. Game ends, I nab the gold, I don't have to worry about the consequences of my recklessness.
Oh, and I played the map again this afternoon and this time got additional wells in Beaumont (which has had a port both times I've played the map, but Houston hasn't). I don't know if I just missed the newspaper announcement about it or what the first time round.
Oh and drubarlow I think the only reason history isn't being strictly adhered to is that "Nacogdoches" is way more fun to say over and over than "Kilgore".
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wrote: i played texas-tea in multi last night. i won by never laying a single rail. i just bought oil and the plastics factory that uses it. everyone else was laying rail and going broke neglect the industry game and expect some losses.
Thats whats wrong, how is this Railroad Tycoon? Its Industry Tycoon a very different game than RRT2. A very nice and great game but not Railroad Tycoon. I wasnt to build railroads and haul product and manage the railroad not get rich by taking over businesses and buying industry.
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wrote: I have lived in East TX for about 6 years now and have noticed a lot of oil related things...oil museums, drilling compaines every 3 feet, oil fields still readily in use, etc. How did they come to the conclusion that Nacogdoches was the center of oil in East TX when it clearly was not?? Anyone that does even a little bit of research would find the Kilgore, TX (near Tyler) was_THE_major_source of oil in Texas period, for a good while. Then more oil was discovered in west Texas and the east Texas wells looked like they were losing money compared to what was being pulled in out there. In fact, there were so many oil wells in Kilgore at one time that the state government came out with "spacing" laws, which said one well couldn't be within "x" number of feet of another. To my knowledge, Nacogdoches never had a substantial amount of oil, or at least not nearly as much as what they hauled out of Kilgore.
Yes. You haven't lived in Texas long enough.
In all seriousness though, the game actually IS pretty historically accurate. Nacogdoches (Nak-uh-doh-chez for those unsure of pronunciation - or who missed the opening video of the campaign) had oil starting right around the beginning of the 19th Century, and continued to be the crux of "oil production" in Texas until Spindletop blew in 1901.
You're absolutely right about Kilgore, but...you're a few years off. The campaign in the game only lasts 30 years, up until about 1918. Long enough to encompass both Nacogdoches and Spindletop (Beaumont), but not long enough to see the massive oil hit in Kilgore, which occurred sometime in late 1930.
Now, that being said, I haven't played up until 1930 in the campaign, so for all I know things start sprouting up around Kilgore at that time, but until that date, things don't look all that farfetched in the game. Pretty impressive, actually.
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Appologies all around...
I went back and did a little more research_after_I posted and realized I was off by a few years, but not before it was pointed out here. I've lived in Texas all my life, but just in east Texas for the last 6 years or so.
I quit playing the map (after I settled for silver!) about 1930 and noticed no oil production coming from the Tyler (Kilgore) area. I had upgraded my entire fleet to the Northern 4-8-4, but quit playing before I got the GG1 electric (east coast engine in TX??). Maybe I'll go back and see watch more closely for this.
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My apologies too. I assumed...on the East Texas=All of Texas thing.
I'm a lifer too (well, with short sabbaticals in Brooklyn and Lawrence, KS).
Love this game, regardless.
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Isn't there a federal prison in Lawrence??
Nothing implied...just a question.
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Ok, I took the offer to connect Monterey. Build tack down to Mexico and then was told no rights in Mexico. What am I doing wrong.
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well, the offer says you get it for much much cheaper--- 50k, i believe... you still have to pay for it...
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Have been following this thread with interest.
So, can one continue the oil business after the 1930's ?
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from what I know, you can. Like I said, I quit playing in 1930, but my oil business was still booming.
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Would it be possible to have a specif map of say, Tex-Okla-Kansas-Louisianna that just does the oil business?
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I'm sure it's possible with the map editor. My map making skills are severely retarded compared to some of these guys. Maybe one of them will do the research and come up w/a map that represents the oil buiness in these states right.
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I am in the middle of this map and thought I would give a couple of my experiences.
1. Wait to go into Mexico when it is offered at the cheap rate. But have your track built to Laredo if possible by this time. You only have 2 and 1/2 years after the offer to get in.
2. I would only build into Monterry in Mexico, especially initially. Your railroad will get wiped out by Mexican Nationals. I've played twice now and it happened both times.
3. The first time I took track up into the mountains of Mexico to try to capture a couple of coffee fields which I had bought. This was not profitable. The coffee fields never turned a profit and the track building was very expensive.
4. The AI players are better in this campaign then the previous. Be very careful about shorting their stock. I was forced to sell every bit of stock to make a margin call in the first game. I had shorted a brand new company that I didn't think would do good. (I had bought out this competitors first company that wasn't doing too good.)
5. Industries to try to get early on are the oil wells, lumber mill (if possible) and lumber yards. These lumber yards are in the area of bueamont. I try to scoop these up before I make a connection here, because they are quite cheap.
6. Industries to avoid early on are oil refinerys, auto plants, tire plants, etc. There are no initial demands for any of these products and by the time demand equals supply you have bled a lot of cash.
7. Be prepared for a depression. You have no choice but to buy stock on margin in order to get a PNW of $15M. Don't run it too close though or you could loose everything. If your company is strong, buying back its own stock during this depression is a great way to increase your stock position and avoid the dreaded margin call.
Anyway, this is a pretty involved campaign. Probably the funnest so far...
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I'm surprised to hear you guys were struggling to get to the $15 M net worth. It's true that I play on "Easy", but is the difference that big? Because my net worth was close to $40 million by 1918.
Basically all I did was have my guy buy stock as early as possible until he was about $300 K in the hole. The company spent the first 5-7 years concentrating on expansion, but after that it was 50% expansion, 50% stock repurchase. I finally locked up the last shares and had 100% ownership in 1917.
It was only at that point that I realized I had totally forgotten that there was also a victory condition that the company have $15 M in cash! So the company sold as much stock as it could, dumped the max number of bonds (20--and I was still only paying 5%!), sold a couple of oil wells, and voila! $15 M!
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wrote: Isn't there a federal prison in Lawrence?? Nothing implied...just a question.
Yeah, Leavenworth was a nightmare.
Or perhaps you're referring to grad school at KU, which was equally as brutal on my sleep patterns and nicotine intake.
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wrote: I'm surprised to hear you guys were struggling to get to the $15 M net worth.
Actually, I had it wrapped up the first time I played. I have a PNW of $35M in about 1905 and my company was making about $5M/year. Then, I took a personal vendetta against an AI and lost. I thought I was invincible. Just like the real thing, the stock market can turn on you quick. My broker sold everything to meet a margin call. Not only is this devestating on your PNW, your companies stock takes a huge hit when all of these are dumped into the open market.
Anyway, thats what makes it fun!
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The oil in East Texas was discovered in October 1930 near Henderson, TX (in Rusk County) by "Dad" Joiner, a wild-catter whom everybody believed was a little crazy (and probably was). However, the oil field that he struck was so rich and so large that it was impossible to control production, so that the price of oil plummeted in 1931-1932 to as low as 10 cents per 42 gallon barrel. It was so bad that the Federal Government (under Harold Ickes, Sec. of the Interior under FDR) had to step in with an allocation system, martial law was declared in parts of Texas, and the E. Texas Intermediate Crude Board (I have to look this name up to verify, but it sounds right) became the first spot market for oil, allowing the smaller independents have a say in the overall pricing of oil for the first time.
Here is a good site on the history of E. Texas oil (The Kilgore boom occurred in the early 1930's) and here is a biography of Dad Joiner.
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wrote: i played texas-tea in multi last night. i won by never laying a single rail. i just bought oil and the plastics factory that uses it. everyone else was laying rail and going broke neglect the industry game and expect some losses.
I am confused. Part of the goal for this scenario it to haul about 30 loads of Coffee and 50 loads of oil. How can you meet this goal if you don't have rails to haul with?
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I finished up Texas Tea last night after a hiatus of running some stand alone scenarios and working on the San Diego one I just put up for download. Came back to wrap up Texas with what I've learned.
I'd followed previous advice and bought each oil well as soon as I saw it. I also ran tracks from Monterrey to McAllen to get the coffee requirement out of the way. Finally I bought all my stock I could on margin, then got out the maximum of 20 bonds, then bought back company stock, rocketing my net worth right up there and still had 15 million company cash to win the gold. It did not leave my player or company in the greatest condition to continue, but when the object is to WIN who cares about what happens later.
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1. Start with DFW and Austin-San Antonio.
2. Buy oil.
3. Around Beaumont, get a monopoly on the wood deal - paper, lumber, toys, furniture (build whatever is missing). The forest region there is only logging camps, and is at 150% density.
4. Connect to AI for the extra passenger destinations.
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I like to start with Nagadoches-Dallas. As soon as I can I build from Tyler to Shreveport. After this I work southwest from Nagadoches doing the lumber deal. I take the cheap Mexican connection and work back up the coast to connect to my lines.
I have not had the Mexicans attack more than once. So after the first attack you can go east from Dallas and south to the Iron and Coffe rich regions in the extreme south west of the map. This will let you get Steel cranking for you.
I have had no problems with the ports since I build a spur with a station on the occasions I need to.
I generally end up with over 7 or so Mil a year proffits so neither of the monetary goals are big issues.
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have to agree with you. There's a 'gold mine' in the lumber market right around Beaumont. Good cash flow immediately and it stays that way. Plus you need the port and you need to be there anyway to capture the oil--hard that as an area to start in. I let the AI start in DFW area then either join to him, buy him out or both.
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My favourite start point in this one is Houston-Beaumont. I connect down to Nagodoches (sp?) asap and make a coastal RR after that. Gets coffee out of the way quickly and pretty much assures the oil req as well.
I agree about the "gold mine" in lumber One of my fav industries and pays off very well.
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I like to start in Beaumont-Houston area and connect with Nacogdoches. This gets access to 2-3 ports all demanding coffee. It also puts me in the center of the oil and timber resources - both of which turn out to be goldmines.
By the time I've gotten this done, the AI has established himself in FTW-Dallas, so I run a line up to Dallas and connect. This coins money.
Finally go along the coast to Mexico.
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Played it yesterday on hard for the first time. Failed rapidly when starting at Houston(with a lot of oil wells in the neighborhood). Second time I started Austin-San Antonio and made Gold within 20 years. Austin benefits from the Texas capital event(more passengers). Bought every oil well that was discovered. ROI was above 50%. A strange requiremenst for gold is the amount of 15M$ in cash. Issuing bonds I finished this pretty boring and too easy scenario.
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One of the easiest. Even the scenario is very easy, and you can't take bonds out in Tex-Mex.
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A question on company cash in Texas Tea.
To acheive $15 million do you have build a lot early in the campaign and then let the profits roll in? I have hit the 12 year mark and my company cash is only $1 million and has nver been over $2 million. The moving oil is no problem. Also to acheive personal net worth I will need to raise the dividend which surely takes more cash out of the company
Any ideas?
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Yes you need $15M in cash for your company. $1M in profits will likely not be enough, you need to be closer to 5M/year. If your company is making that much money, and you buy enough stock early, then net worth will not be an issue.
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I pretty much always go with a lumber mill early; buy the logging camps up as well. Much the same with oil; buy every oil well you can afford(cheap when they first appear) and right after the big strike build an oil refinery. I never try to compete with the cattle industry around Austin, but closer to the Mexican border an opportunity is usually present.
PNW will go up with the value of your holdings. If you buy up a large chunk of your company, you can usually achieve the PNW goal by having the company buy up the remaining shares later on. Wait for downturns in the economy to get the biggest bang for your buck with stock purchases.
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Thanks for the advice. To be honest I have not really got into buying up industry. Is this vital for making the big profits? I have got some reasonably profitable routes but transporting oil is not as lucrative as I hoped
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Not absolutely vital; there are some ppl who manage quite nicely w/o it but I am an addict
The money you can make from hauling oil pales in comparison to the returns of owning the wells and a refinery. Say you buy up 4 oil wells after the big strike up on the coast; each costs you about 200,000; plant a refinery there and the wells are giving you about 500,000 per turn each and the refinery is likely returning a few hundred thou a year as well; upgrade the refinery and things just get better
The same thing happens with logging camps and a lumber mill...just not as dramatic.
Experiment with industry. In some scenario's, a well placed industry might take years to kick into gear; in others the returns can be immediate.
http://www.gathering.com/forums/viewtop ... highlight= has a good discussion on industry
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I have not had the big strike yet but I will be certainly ready for it!! I did buy some industry in a previous campaign but it lost me money. If I own oil wells will it be added to the company cash pot ad hoc or just when I ship the oil out?
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The industries make their own profits. The profits your trains make hauling the cargo is something else. So, in effect, if you own the industry you get paid twice for the same cargo - first for making it, then for hauling it. (Your refinery still has to buy the oil though - but then you get to sell the diesel and ship that too!) And yes, the industry profits are automatically added to your company's cash. I think the update happens once a month or so. Some times you can see it happen. (Company cash amount changes.) What actually happens is that you pay your bills for maintenance, interest, dividends, etc. and receive your profits from industry, hotels and restaurants, interests, etc. If your industry profits alone are higher than your total expenses this month, your company cash amount will rise even though no train has arrived.
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One word of advice though: consider the placement of your station. I has to attract enough cargo from the oilwells to matter. Also make sure the pickup station has a good service - like a train waiting for a number of full cars. Plus a fair frequency. This will create a demand on the oilwells and they'll increase production.
Otherwise production will remain low and you'll make just little money.
I found out of this the hard way...
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Got gold, on hard without buying one industry. Oil was easy too. Had 100 loads or so with just one train from Nach to Beaumont.
I pulled a sneaky too (shame on me). I wanted to start San Antonio to Austin, but also wanted Dallas, OKC and Amarillo. AI usually waits late in the year to start their companies, so I went up and laid track down the middle of all three, then came back to develop San Antonio-Austin. Both AIs had to start in smaller cities and never did recover.
After starting Nach to Beaumont for the oil, I developed Dallas/Ft. Worth. By then it was time to start the coffee campaign (darn Mexicans).
AI did have a surprise for me by then. After buying one of them around Mineral Wells, he started a new company in OKC running along side and over my track I laid earlier. Took that little sucker over quick don't you know.
By the time the Mexicans attacked I had forgotten about Amarillo. Used to live near there. Never liked it much anyways.
So now I had five unconnected sections. Being leary of another Mexican attack, I ran track and built two small stations at two lone coffee farms just over the river. I forget what that little Texas town I ran between was. If they attacked again, I would only lose two small stations, a short bit of track and maybe one train.
Once I got that started, I applied funds to connecting the five sections and ended up with a couple of gigantic circles. Money started pouring in, coffee was done, oil was double - GOLD!
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Gold wasn't very hard. No sneaky tricks employed. Never even got as far as to the nasty Mexican events. I was playing on normal though. Also had some very nice industry profits that helped things along.
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Yes I am playing on normal, but I suspect I will be starting again as my company cash is noe below the $1 million with 18 years to go. Unless I can make a killing on the oil!. Thanks for everyones advice on this one
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18 years, THAT'S A LIFETIME. I only had $2M with 10 to go and hit the target. If you have everything built, you should get between $3M and $5M profit per year. Just don't buy any more and makes sure ALL trains are making money.
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18 years to go! Yes, that is plenty of time! Remember, as your company grows, you will get more and more money every year, and it's only at the end that you need to have $15 million +.
I kept spending money until I had everything else pretty much in place, then I just sat back, rode some trains, looked at the scenery and watched my company accumulate the $15 million. I had about 2 million in company cash when I stopped buying stuff, and getting up to 15 took less than 3 years.
Also, keep in mind that you just need to have $15 million on hand at the end of this scenario. There is no requirement to actually make that much money. So, if you grow impatient or if you're squeezed for time at the end, you can issue bonds for up to 10 of the 15 million.
With 18 years to go, I would definitely not give up on it just yet.
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Thanks for the words of encouragement. I will stick with it.
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I just finished this campaign scenario yesterday so still have some numbers that show the effect industry income and loan interest can have on a game (on hard).
Code:
To 1/06 1904
Industry Income 20,919 2,612 (on 14,730)
All other 20,430 1,625
Interest Paid -7,169 -122
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Total Income 34,180 4,115
Imo, it is important to go all out at the start and then sit back. I also started San Antonio/Austin but used the extra money to buy a paper mill instead of burning some cities. Later I connected to AI track in Houston/Dallas with a line through Killeen and also built my own Dallas station hoping the AI would come down my track. They didn't, but I had no end of hauls from Dallas and it didn't seem to hinder either of our incomes. Around 1891/92 I took enough loans to connect Dallas and Austin with a 3-city loop through Beaumont, all in one go. After that the only track I built was down to 3 stations for 4 coffee plantations as soon as I could afford it, using McAllen in the US as a collector (hub). Later I connected to Monterrey at the last minute. I guess if you didn't go as heavy on industry you would find yourself having to build another loop or so. I had only 27 trains and 12 stations.
I did nothing special in the stock market but I did indeed get impatient to finish the scenario rather than playing a tedious 3-4 more years, So at 12/05 I issued 2 rounds of shares and borrowed $10M and bought as much stock on margin as I could, taking me to a year-end win. Here are the numbers.
Code:
At 12/05 At 1/06
Personal Cash -4,738 -17,861
Shares held 15,113 35,591
Total 10,375 17,730
Company cash 2,495 15,084
Borrowed 0 -10,000
Too bad the scenario says to haul coffee from Mexico to US when we know that can't be tested. One of my trains picked up 1 coffee from A, 2 coffee from B, then dropped them at McAllen for a count of 3. I separated the run into 2 trains after about 1 run though so I could better take things back to the each plantation.
Too bad the scenario doesn't have some teeth by requiring no debt and no negative cash for gold.
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I haven't tried the editor yet, but can't you just import that scenario and apply some more rules if you like?
Also, I'm curious to how much harder hard is than normal? (in general I mean).
I almost complated the american campaign at normal and I must say that apart from a cash cruch in the first 5 years, it's far too easy. Buy raw materials producer, then the processing industry and connect a few cities. Cities will grow and with it passenger traffic. Add hotels, restaurants etc.
For the reamining game money will fill your cars more than other cargo
I hope hard (very hard) provides a better challenge.
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wrote: I haven't tried the editor yet, but can't you just import that scenario and apply some more rules if you like?
Or you can just impose them on yourself without changing anything. That wasn't my point though. Those below the line remarks were posted above incidentally. I really was considering a separate topic.
wrote: Also, I'm curious to how much harder hard is than normal? (in general I mean)...I almost complated the american campaign at normal...
I also just finished the American campaign but on hard, but haven't played it on normal. I didn't find it too difficult but now #6, Germany, at first glance looks nigh impossible.
It might be worth a topic to explore the difference between normal and hard campaign settings but maybe even more telling would be a comparison of patch 3 to prepatch difficulty on some of these scenarios.
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The difference is that it is harder to make money. Cargo earns less, ad trains cost more to operate and to maintain. So completing this scenario on hard is definitely more difficult.
I agree with self imposing the limitation, but it is very hard. IIRC, I didn't need to loan $10M to get the cash on hand for Texas Tea, but I may have beeen a couple million short for Germany, where you also need to basically raise an insane amount of cash to buy property rights.
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I've found that owning oil refineries is a loser. Certainly you want there to be one on the map to haul oil to, but you dont want to own it. The only time I'd consider it would be if the game stubbornly refused to put one anywhere. And if you do buy one, put it well away from any houses and service it with a small station. Until houses stop accepting unprocessed oil, refineries dont make much because the houses drive the price of crude up.
But in texas tea you definitely want to pause the game the instant of the big strike and buy all 4 oil wells at $280 each. Make sure you have the cash or can float the bonds! If you're really sneaky you might save the game the month before the big strike and keep replaying it until all 4 wells fall within the area of a large station.
Another tactic is to check for new oil wells at Nacogdoches every month, and buy them the instant they appear.
When I played on normal difficulty I got gold by in 1911 and bought no industry other than 6 or 7 oil wells. I bought all the wells as they appeared, including at the beginning of the game. I did the trick of laying track with no stations in the major cities to keep the AI's out until I could get enough cash to build there.
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I don't remember the big strike, but Oil Refineries are definitely not big losers. I'm not sure if the Texas scenario continues long enough for houses to stop accepting Oil. Oil Refineries, once the demand for diesel has emerged, are one of the most profitable industries.
You don't want to own a oil refinery only in the same way you may not want to own any industry: when there are several in one city. Otherwise, if you can direct the oil in any way, then oil refineries are real money earners.
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Texas tea starts in 1888 and goes until 1918. Cities stop taking oil directly only in 1910. In Texas Tea the only places that can have oil refineries are certain cities, they will never spawn in the countryside. So there are always houses nearby to leech any oil you deliver, particularly if you've built a large station. I have had this happen to me -- I bought an oil refinery and delivered all the oil to it from 4+ oil wells and it *still* didn't make money because it wasn't processing the oil. The houses were taking it all.
After 1910 its a different story, but the big oil strike happens enough before 1910 that many players will be tempted to buy an oil refinery which will lose money for a number of years before it even starts to earn back its cost. And there're only 8 profitable years in this scenario, not enough to justify the investment.
When houses take oil, one refinery in a city with 15 houses is just as bad as two refineries, even though the houses demand only 0.03 each. They split the demand and create lots of little stacks of oil that the refinery doesn't get to process. There can also be demand from electric plants and ports. I've made money from refineries in other scenarios, but its very tricky in texas tea -- just owning the oil wells is a safer bet overall in this scenario.
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My experience is not at all consistent with the above post.
I played Texas Tea on normal and got the gold in 1907 without taking any bonds to raise company cash. The first oil refinery I had access to was located in Austin and - true enough - it never did make it to become profitable. However, I pretty much knew all along that this one would never amount to much, and so I never bought it although I did keep an eye on it for several years. Then, at some point, a new refinery appeared just outside Houston. It was out of range of my large station downtown and so didn't get serviced directly, but after a couple of years it was diverting part of the oil shipped in from Nacogdoches. Then came the big strike in Beaumount. By this time, Houston had grown quite a bit after several years with pretty good rail service. Parts of the city were now outside the service radius of the original large station - which was also experiencing some traffic problems. I laid out a new section of track passing through the northern parts of the city and built a new large station - called Houston North - which covered parts of the same area as the original Houston station, but also all the northern stuff that was outside the service area of the original station. Houston North was also pretty close to the oil refinery, which was already showing signs of becoming profitable at that time.
I bought the refinery and bought the four new wells in Beaumount (I already owned the ones in Nacogdoches). I also re-routed the trains hauling oil from Nacogdoches so these would now deliver their oil cargoes to Houston North. Plus, I upgraded the refinery once it had about 5 carloads of crude oil waiting to be processed. Within less than a year, the refinery was literally gushing cash. It kept running at near max for the rest of the game. So, no, refineries are definitely not big losers, but you should probably wait a couple of years and let demand for diesel pick up a bit before you try anything big with them.
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Notably you should wait iuntill just before the Ford-T event is triggered. Fuel prices goes up by 25%, I think.
(Btw.: rather odd since the Ford T didn't run on Diesel. It hadn't even been invented).
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I just played Texas Tea again tonight on Hard. I got gold in Sept 1910.
At that time there were 7 oil refineries on the map. Here are their years built, lifetime profitability and lifetime loads produced:
Code:
Houston 1890 -1,169K 16.4
Ft. Worth 1899 -962K 3.6
San Antonio 1891 -1,992K 2.1
1895 -1,454K 3.4
Laredo 1901 -851K 2.4
Abilene 1896 -1,212K 5.3
OK City 1894 -1,283K 6.8
From Beaumont I had one train doing loads of 8 oil to Houston, another doing loads of 8 to San Antonio a third I rescheduled to other cities as the price changed. From Nacogdoceus most of the oil went to Shreveport. I maximized my oil profit by spreading it around rather than dumping it all in one place. I hauled a total of 259 loads of oil to the above cities. The 8 oil wells on the map had produced a total of 441.5 loads. There were 176 loads of oil on the map in Sept 1910. All the cities were connected by rail to Beaumont and Nacogdoches (either my rail or the AI's), so there was nothing stopping the AI from hauling oil to any refinery. By 1909 the refinery in Houston was turning a profit, the others were all still losing money every year.
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I nelieve the Ford T event happens around 1912 or 1913. So I guess you have to pass that date before the refineries get profitable.
I note, btw., that an upgraded sawmill or two in this scenario is the best investment at all.
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The Model T event happens in Jan 1908. This event increases Oil prices 25% and Tire prices 50% (not that there's any rubber to make tires from). Its not clear to me why increasing the price of its input should make a refinery more profitable. I'd expect the reverse, actually. Houses stop sucking oil in 1910. My original point was that only then do refinery's have a decent shot at being a good investment, regardless of the scenario. I think the Model T event in Texas T ea would explain why even after 1910 refineries wouldn't do as well as other scenarios.
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Rubber comes from the ports. It's feasible to make a profit from owning as well a tire as an autoplant from then on.
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Wow, this topic has certainly been refueled. Lots of different approaches all seem to work OK.
Actually, I had both oil and coffee requirements met by the Jan/01 appearance of extra oil in Beaumont so had no particular interest in oil industries, which I also found did poorly anyhow, but one or two might have done better if I'd concentrated on it. As a result, I paid more attention to where money could be made rather than concentrating on a particular industry. I found the toy industry paid best for me at about 30% return. Would have had an auto industry too if I'd played a few more years.
I did however ship a couple loads Beaumont oil to Dallas after first rerouting on the fly to Nagodoches and then on to Dallas to get $39 instead of $13 per carload. Thats in the game, right? Too mico-intensive though. Prices were:
Beaumont 109
Nagodoches 83
Dallas 122
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For me, the key to success in this campaign was wood, not oil.
Playing on hard, I started out by building huge wood products complex near Beaumont. In order I bought a timber mill, four logging sheds, paper mill, furniture factory, toy factory, timber mill, furniture factory, toy factory, paper mill. All were upgraded where possible. Once this was in place, I built railroads to take this stuff to market. The money gushed in.
Got gold in 1907. PNW = 42 mil.
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I recall going the lumber route as well. There's more than enough there to make a lot of cash. Although, there is no harm in owning every single oil well on the map as well, because they're usually very cheap and as soon as you start shipping out oil, they make a ton of money.
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I bought all the oil wells as soon as they were built (or within a part of month afterwards if I wasn't quick enough on the pause trigger). The minimum price was $280K until after the beaumont strike raises the production 25%, then the minimum price is $320K. Here's how I did by Sept 1910. I counted 1910 as a 3/4 of a year and assumed I bought the industries in January of their buy year. ROE is Return on Equity, the percentage of the purchase price earned back per year.
Code:
Oil Wells
Year Cost LTD loads LTD profit Years profit/year ROE
1885 280K 98.2 2,788k 25.75 108K/y 38.6%
1892 350k 76.0 2,385k 18.75 127K/y 36.3%
1899 370k 49.0 1,696k 11.75 144K/y 38.9%
1901 320k 40.6 1,445k 9.75 148K/y 46.3%
1901 320k 45.0 1,943k 9.75 199K/y 62.2%
1901 320k 44.6 1,928k 9.75 198K/y 61.9%
1901 320K 44.2 1,870K 9.75 192K/y 60.0%
1901 320k 43.9 1,874k 9.75 192K/y 60.0%
The first 4 were in Nacogdoches, the last 4 in Beaumont. I got all but #2 and #3 at the minimum price at the time.
I also snatched the first paper factory the game built (in Austin) while it was extra cheap ($650k), though I took a loss on it for a couple years before I could get pulp to it. I built a lumber mill next to the paper mill and built branch lines to a cluster of 6 logging camps to bring in raw materials, and upgraded the paper mill after it got going. Here's how that pair of industries did:
Code:
Austin
Type Year Cost LTD Loads LTD Profit Years profit/year ROE
Paper+ 1898 1170K 57.8 4,229K 12.75 332K/y 28.4%
Lumber 1899 1500K 50.3 2,550K 11.75 217K/y 14.5%
Later I built a pair of mills in Beaumont with lots of logging and no competition nearby. I should have upgraded the paper mill here, but I didn't.
Code:
Beaumont
Type Year Cost LTD Loads LTD Profit Years profit/year ROE
Paper 1901 900K 29.7 2,667K 9.75 274K/y 30.4%
Lumber 1903 1500K 36.3 2,806K 7.75 362K/y 24.1%
As you can see, the beaumont oil wells (the last 4 in the list) are roughly twice as good an investment as the paper mills and the lumber mills are not the greatest but are ok if placed with no competition nearby. Just to hammer home the point about oil refineries, the ROE would be negative for every refinery on the map, no matter when I bought it, except the refinery in Houston, which would have had a ROE of 12.5% if bought in Jan 1910. At that rate it would take 8 years to break even on the investment, i.e. until 1918, when the game ends.
Note that all these numbers came from a game played on HARD, your mileage may vary.
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wrote: At that rate it would take 8 years to break even on the investment (...)
Actually, this is not quite right. You don't lose the money when you buy an industry, you just trade one asset (cash) for another (industrial assets). After buying the industry, you own it, and it's valued at the price you paid for it. Hence, the moment you've bought the thing, you're already breaking even on the investment. If you paid $ 1 million in cash, you got $ 1 million in industrial assets. Likewise, if you pay $ 1 million to upgrade an industry, it's value - which you own - is increased by $ 1 million. The only way you'll ever lose money on industry is if you operate it at a loss after buying it.
So, "breaking even" is not really an issue. The real question is, how much of a profit can you make, and is this the most profitable investment you can get for your money?
If you can buy another industry and operate it at a higher profit margin, then - obviosly - that is the better investment. This is what you need to consider, not how long it will take to "break even" on your investment. That said, the ROE or ROI (Return Of Investment) rating is still a good way to measure the "quality" of an investment, as it will show you if you can get a better return on your investment somewhere else.
The lifetime profit of an industry is not really relevant in this context unless you've owned it all along. What matters is the profit while you own it. In more than a few cases, the best investments can be made by buying an industry that's losing money or is just starting to make money (you get it cheap) and then turn it into a money machine.
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We are talking about the texas tea scenario, where CASH is a goal. If you put a million cash into an industry, you are one million farther from the goal. The company will need to make back a million before you break even with respect to the victory condition.
Cash matters in this scenario, and oil refineries suck as investments in the time frame that the scenario runs, and given the scenario built-in events.
And I called my last column in the tables ROE for return on equity. This is by way of pointing out that I know the equity isn't gone when you buy an industry.
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And another thing, my point on oil wells sucking is that they run in the red up until 1908-1910 at best. After that, if you bought them right when they turned into profitable businesses, you'd spend all the remaining scenario time just earning back the cash you put into it. Therefore at best the investment would have done no good toward the game goal, and would have precluded you from putting it into something helpful, or just putting it toward the goal.
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You could sell the industries near the end and convert them back into cash
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True! I hadn't considered that, because you get only half of what you paid for them. But you could do that if you were short on cash. Might be an especially good trick if you paused the game while you did it because then your stock price and PWN wouldn't have time to change for the worse.
I probably could have won a couple years earlier if I'd used the trick of pausing the game and buying stock on margin to pump the price and my PNW. What I did was use company cash for a couple years to buy back stock (which hurts the cash goal but helps the PNW goal), then when PNW was close to the goal I let the cash build up until they both passed the goal at about the same time.
So I could have not bought back stock, saved up to maybe $11M company cash, paused the game, sold off all industries to get $15M company cash, then used margin buying to pump PNW to $15M. Maybe I'll restart one of the intermediate saves and see how many years sooner I can win that way.
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I went back to Jan 1904 and played forward again, this time not buying back any company stock. Because of a slightly late start hauling coffee and only one warehouse in monterrey (so only 4 a year production), I didn't get to 30 coffee until June 1906. This turned out to be the limiting factor in this game for me. Without stock buybacks and further investment, I had over 15M company cash by that point. My PNW was about $11M, with no shares bought on margin. I owned about 1/4 of the company. So I paused the game and bought on margin until my PNW crested over $15M and got gold June '06. Didn't need to sell any industries to raise cash after all.
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Just an addendum to my post on page 1, I set one train with 1 oil car, 6 Any's and a caboose from Nach to Beaumont in the second year. By the time I thought I had to worry about my oil barrel count (after the Monterey connection and Mexican uprising were taken care of), I already had my oil load quota!
A little concentration on the coffee and linking my five or so sections together set me up just fine with all loads hauled and plenty of cash (actually got to spend some the last five years or so, but not on industries) with only I think about 25 trains.
When CA$H is the object, SPEND WISELY and calculate ROI required when.
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wrote: So I could have not bought back stock, saved up to maybe $11M company cash, paused the game, sold off all industries to get $15M company cash, then used margin buying to pump PNW to $15M. Maybe I'll restart one of the intermediate saves and see how many years sooner I can win that way.
Different play styles!
I see you like to shoot straight for the gold.
I usually try to make my company grow as big and profitable as possible and sort of just scoop up the scenario goals along the way.
Hence, my strategy in Texas Tea was not fundamentally different from my strategy in other scenarios where cash is not an issue. I just played it up to a certain point and then stopped spending in order to scoop up the cash. PNW wasn't an issue either - I was well above $25M by the time my company had the $15M in cash.
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I've played texas tea all the way through about 5 or 6 times now, its my favorite scenario (not sure why, but I've not played any of the others more than 3 times). In comparison to other scenarios, its really a pretty easy scenario (maybe that's why I like it?). So in subsequent plays my focus was more on winning as early as I could.
The first time I played it I didn't know what events I'd face and such, so there was more "wonder" to it, and I played it more as you describe. The last time I was more focused on industry and buying every oil well as soon as it spawned. I did a bad job on PNW, I bought some shares as I had cash, but didn't do margin buying, and PNW was a lagging goal (so I had to pump it with paused margin buying to finish the scenario off). Of course I could have sat there and let it run a few more years on fast.
The next time I play it I'll focus even more on industry, and try to do the whole verticle-chain of wood products as well as buying all the oil wells. I'll also leverage my character to the max at the start and see if my PNW gets anywhere near to the numbers others have mentioned. I dont think I've ever gone over 20 mil PNW in that scenario (unless I played it past the gold win point).
Earlier plays I had a slightly larger rail network, this last time I had basically a single line from Monterrey to Nacogdoches via Laredo, San Antonio, Austin and Dallas. I did connect to Shreveport this time, which I hadn't ever tried before, it gave me somewhere to haul oil to early on before refineries appeared.
I consider it kind of cheesy to pause-pump PNW, but if I know I have the thing won, and I've played it N times before, then I'd rather not just quit before I get the win, and I dont want to sit there and wait on it, so I pause-pump PNW, get my gold, watch him wave, and quit.
I started another thread on the PNW goal, because its easy enough for the scenario writers to prevent the pause-pump win.
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As soon as you get the get the message, Oil in Beaumont.....buy as many wells as you can, they haven't gotten a demand yet so they are cheap. Buy as many as you can, before that, just play with your rail road. I'd suggest start in DFW and go though Waco, Austin and SA. Screw Amarillo, I've lived there, yes, huge yard and PANTEX, see NUKE DISPOSAL.
Avoid the Panhandle unless you feel pretty. Get Cattle from Abeliene and San Angelo. I only had my MEX routes destroyed once... Got coffee and blinged out well before time...because of those Beaumont wells.
Honestly it's very unrealistic map. Honestly, Texline had a railroad through it ONE year AFTER the rail road through Canadian, Texas, had one and that was 1887. Maps from 1887 show lines going from OKC to Amarillo ,through Canadian. The majority of traffic was Dallas to Austin to SA, SA=San Antonio, Then out to Odessa/Midland or south, through Laredo to ElPaso. Trust me, Stick to that.
In Game, To the north of Dallas, honestly Sherman was not on the map in 1887. Go directly east to Tyler and head south to Beaumont, and hit every town between. Forget, OK, they roll their joints all wrong, anyways...
Just to feed the nice star count, run a line from Dallas to Shreveport, LA. if you have a line from SA to Houston, run a line from Houston to Shreveport. Honestly, don't mess with "WASTE" West Texas.
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Wow, when I started this thread with a simple question over a week ago I did not expect to see it go to 3 pages and be at the top of the forum. So while I have got the attention of all this knowledge I will throw in another question!
It is 1910 and I have acheived everything other than PNW target. Which is the best way to increase PNW is it to have the company buy back stock to increase the value of your personal holding or increase the dividend that the company pays out or a combination of both.
Its been interesting to see different game play methods. I am a bit like chugger who sweeps things up as he goes along.
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Having a dividend is not a good way to increase PNW, unless you own 100% of the company. Anything less and you're giving yourself less than the full benefit of whatever you spend on the dividend.
Buybacks are better.
As I and others have written about extensively, the cheap & easy way is to pause the game and buy stock on margin using your player's purchasing power. If you are not too heavily leveraged when you start out what you'll see is that at first your purchasing power will go down as you buy stock, but after a few buys the price increase you cause by buying stock more than compensates for your increased leverage, and your purchasing power actually rises. This enables you to just keep buying and buying, as long as you dont start the game. Your PNW will skyrocket. The only thing that would
keep you from reaching the PNW goal this way immediately would be if there wasn't any more company stock to buy back! Assuming you can get to over $15M PNW this way, when you unpause the game you get an immediate gold. If you continue playing another month or to the end of the year, the stock price falls back from your artificial pumping up and you may end up with a margin call and even a stock price crash, but by then you've got your gold medal and they can't take it back.
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Thanks for the reply. I like your idea and theory however call me old fashioned but is this not sort of like cheating a teensy bit OR in "real life" would you on one day or one month be able to buy loads and loads of company stock to acheive a short term wealth.
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Yes, I think its sort of an exploit -- taking advantage of the way the game works.
If you dont want to do that, the slow, classic way is to buy stock with your player (with time running) on margin until you're heavily leveraged, meanwhile accumulating company cash. Then start buying back stock with company cash. If you run into a recession, you'll be able to save yourself when the margin call comes by doing another buy-back, so dont blow all your company cash at once, just do regular buys. If you get all the stock bought in, other than what you own, then max the dividend.
This way takes a number of years to build PNW, but its pretty efficient, you aren't giving any money to other shareholders. The only cost is interest (on your margin debt) and commissions (which are outrageous in the game, but what can you do).
There are other (faster) "robber baron" type ways of building PNW (at the expense of your company and/or reputation), which aren't really cheating, they're historical!
For example, if you own half of your company, you can resign the chairmanship and start another company. You contribute only your own cash to it, take none from anyone else, so that you own all the shares of this new temporary company. Then you resign from it, take over chairmanship of your old company again, and buy the temporary company in a merger. Pay the biggest premium on the shares that you can. This money all goes to your player, your company is in effect paying $2 for every $1 the temporary company had. You do all of this on pause to keep the AI from messing up your main company while you aren't the chairman. This doesn't work if there are restrictions in the scenario against starting multiple companies, resigning as chairman, merging with other companies, etc. Its also not an obvious play for texas tea, since you have to maintain $15M company cash. But you could use it if somehow your company had $20M cas
Texas Tea
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RayofSunshine
- CEO
- Posts: 1288
- Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2006 12:04 pm
- Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Re: Texas Tea
Boy, that was a lot of threads of players comments and suggestions.
But I was going to be a "skin flint" this time. First depots FTW - DAL. Laid track to the nearest south cities of Waco and Kileen. With those connected, I alternated each run between FTW and DAL. Anyway, I found an oil well by Nacogdoches, and alternated the consists the same way.
An AI had cnn SAN to AUS, but only established a depot at AUS, branching off to Victoria and Corpus Christi. By this time Mexico gave a reduction of access to lay track in MEXico. So my line was extend then to Monterray.
It was simple enough to transport coffee to McAllen, but after a time, I had to extend its hauling to other cities, as the supply was not moving. Just needed more trains.
But then there was a problem. In trying to increase my revenue, I built a depot to cover a couple of "cotton fields", and used a "custom consist" to Monterray's Textile Plant, but received no revenue for the haul. After a couple of tries, the supply indicated a haul to FTW Textile Plant. Hence I reconfigured hauling from 3 fields near DAL.
It was then that the oil fields popped up near Beaumont. So in an attempt, I laid track to Houston only, as I didn't need more than the present supply from Nacogdoches.
But with the economy dipping down into 4 different Recessions, my revenue was not getting accummulated, but at a snail pace. But with some interest coming from a couple of AIs, I maxed out my company dividend, to boost my PNV, as that wasn't going very well either.
It was boring for a few years, UNTIL the economy finally BOOMED. By this time my CBV was in the basement, so I cut off the dividend, as the AIs dividend was doing very well.
With only 8 years to the deadline, I completed a rail to Beaumount, and ran a spur to a couple of oil wells. Then I noticed that although there was an Oil Refinery near HOU, that there not only was 2 within a "large depot" area, and it had 4 star economy. That was when I laid a track to SAN, and was running trains maxed, from SAN to every city in the area.
Managed to get GOLD 2 years short of deadline, and unlike other attempts, did not try to do a lot of expanding of my system. Only bought 1 oil well, 6 cotton fields, and 1 Textile Plant.
Enjoyed the sceanario, and played a lot different than a lot of suggestion and hints from other players. Some of their ideas were incorporated, and I guess everyone has their own system. Maybe I liked it because there wasn't any mountains that had to be traversed. OH, I like to look at them, but not necessarily have to climb them. LOL
But I was going to be a "skin flint" this time. First depots FTW - DAL. Laid track to the nearest south cities of Waco and Kileen. With those connected, I alternated each run between FTW and DAL. Anyway, I found an oil well by Nacogdoches, and alternated the consists the same way.
An AI had cnn SAN to AUS, but only established a depot at AUS, branching off to Victoria and Corpus Christi. By this time Mexico gave a reduction of access to lay track in MEXico. So my line was extend then to Monterray.
It was simple enough to transport coffee to McAllen, but after a time, I had to extend its hauling to other cities, as the supply was not moving. Just needed more trains.
But then there was a problem. In trying to increase my revenue, I built a depot to cover a couple of "cotton fields", and used a "custom consist" to Monterray's Textile Plant, but received no revenue for the haul. After a couple of tries, the supply indicated a haul to FTW Textile Plant. Hence I reconfigured hauling from 3 fields near DAL.
It was then that the oil fields popped up near Beaumont. So in an attempt, I laid track to Houston only, as I didn't need more than the present supply from Nacogdoches.
But with the economy dipping down into 4 different Recessions, my revenue was not getting accummulated, but at a snail pace. But with some interest coming from a couple of AIs, I maxed out my company dividend, to boost my PNV, as that wasn't going very well either.
It was boring for a few years, UNTIL the economy finally BOOMED. By this time my CBV was in the basement, so I cut off the dividend, as the AIs dividend was doing very well.
With only 8 years to the deadline, I completed a rail to Beaumount, and ran a spur to a couple of oil wells. Then I noticed that although there was an Oil Refinery near HOU, that there not only was 2 within a "large depot" area, and it had 4 star economy. That was when I laid a track to SAN, and was running trains maxed, from SAN to every city in the area.
Managed to get GOLD 2 years short of deadline, and unlike other attempts, did not try to do a lot of expanding of my system. Only bought 1 oil well, 6 cotton fields, and 1 Textile Plant.
Enjoyed the sceanario, and played a lot different than a lot of suggestion and hints from other players. Some of their ideas were incorporated, and I guess everyone has their own system. Maybe I liked it because there wasn't any mountains that had to be traversed. OH, I like to look at them, but not necessarily have to climb them. LOL
Re: Texas Tea
This is an unusual campaign for me, in that I play the first 5-10 years on Slow or Normal. Normally I'm a micromanagement-maniac, who can't bear to let things just happen without the benefit of my genius-tycoon input 
at every moment on Very Slow speed.
It's Texas before the boom: there's really not much going on...
...
...
...tumbleweed...
...
...
This is what makes the challenge at the start of this scenario. There just isn't very much for you to get into, apart from the business of bulls and cows getting on down to making smaller bulls and cows, and the business of turning them all into steaks and hamburgers. You can only watch this enviously from the sidelines for a good few years in this campaign scenario. I'm not saying anything about how lonely it is at the top here - just that a Meatpacking plant, which makes an insane amount of money in Texas, is way beyond your purse at $2.4M. Until you get your company established, those Meatpacking plants are going to be making an insane amount of money for someone else.
And the usual sure-fire way to get an industry start established in RRT3 won't work on this map:
Yep, Texas is dry! There are Grain Farms, but Breweries aren't enabled. Strangely, Distilleries are enabled, but there's no Sugar or Produce on the map for them to magic into electric soup.
Given the enormous distances, and the lack of industry, running trains (I found) is really just a sideline for the first few years. You can run rails from a likely-looking big 2-3 star city to somewhere else, but after the initial rush, your trains will be carrying nothing at all. This even applies to trains between two big cities, which will trundle along with 2-3 loads after a couple of years. Running rails in the first few years is really only about establishing your rail-territory to prevent an AI company from setting up there - because the same RRT3 rules apply, and having big cities connected will make you a lot of money: it'll just take you about 10 years for it to pay off on this map.
With Mexico behind a $1M access-barrier at the start, this leaves only 3 options for quickly connecting a couple of cities:
1. The obvious Dallas-FW
2. Austin-San Antonio
3. OK City-Lawton (or Amarillo if you're really brave/rich as it's miles away)
Which one you choose depends on where you place your industry - because on this map, it's even more true than usual that an industry start is essential. And the distances (again) mean that you just can't afford to buy/build an industry and run rails to it to supply the raw materials and take away the goodies it produces. Here the undeveloped map works in your favour: your industry can still quickly make money without rails (as long as you place it in an existing supply path) simply because there's no-one else doing what you're doing. Build the industry first, and you can connect it up to markets later.
This is why I don't go for the obvious Dallas-FW connection at the start. Too crowded, all the big-city folk have already sewn everything up
. Lots of lucrative Meatpacking and Textile production, but it's already there and you can't afford to buy in. Your trains will just be helping someone else make more money. Oklahoma City is big, but cut off from Texas by a river in a nasty canyon that needs an expensive bridge. So after a few tries, I decided on Austin-San Antonio as the best option. For one thing, these two cities are close to where I like to start my industry, making linking it in to the markets easier. (You can of course build unconnected track in this scenario, as it's not disabled - but connected track makes more money: just watch how easy it is to take over your rival tycoons who build an initially lucrative 2-city connection out in the sticks).
Which industry to get into? Despite the name of the scenario, Oil doesn't really become a thing until many years after the start: there's just one well near Nacogdoches. Meat is too expensive. Alcohol doesn't exist (WHAAAAttt?
). That leaves Clothing, Paper and Lumber. You can do pretty well with Clothing from the Cotton Farms between Houston and Waco, but only until you connect up to the powerful textile industry in Dallas/FW which will swamp your market. Paper is a bit of a later, luxury item. So Lumber was my choice. And an $80K investment, with $800K outside investment, plus one bond and a couple of stock issues will just stretch to the price of a Lumber Mill.
There are two clusters of Logging Camps: one near Beaumont and one west of El Dorado. (Sure, there are more up in the north, but every time I've played, they're already hand-in-glove with existing Lumber Mills). El Dorado looks a bit like the middle of nowhere (some conquistador trying too obviously hard to make the town name into a sales-pitch, possibly ). Beaumont does too, but it's near this cute little one-star townlet called Houston, which sounds like some kind of important place I've heard of. And both of them are on the coast. You won't have Ports at Beaumont and Houston at the start, but they'll soon appear - that's where you want to be building your empire, as the Ports demand stuff which your trains can move to them. Further down the coast, there's this gigantic long reef so that you don't get Ports appearing, and thus have no way to make money until the migratory-bird-watching industry gets started up.
So I built a Lumber Mill near a place called Huntsville, which confused me as I thought that was in Alabama (RRT3 campaigns are my education in US geography ); and built a completely unrelated railway between Austin and San Antonio. I placed my Lumber Mill wrong a few times, falling foul of a river on the other side of the Logging Camps, which sucked the Logs away from my mill and made the start of production (vitial for you to get a foothold in the rail business before someone else does) slower.
For the first couple of years, nothing much happened, except making enough money to get the bond-markets to give me more cash. But soon enough, Huntsville became the hub of a network stretching out to Austin, Waco, Houston and Beaumont. And that gave me enough money to get into the making-little-cows-watching-them-grow-and-turning-them-into-steaks business. Once you've bought into that, you're rollin' (...rollin' rollin'...)
A few other notable things about this scenario:
1. There's hardly any Steel production on the map. Sometimes a mill appears in Austin, but it struggles to produce even 1 load a year due to lack of Coal. At the moment I've just invested in a mill down in the mountains of Mexico where there's Iron and Coal in spades. Hoping to ship the Steel to an Auto Plant on the coast where the Rubber comes in.
2. At one point Mexico will offer you a deal of an amazing $50K access fee (reduced from $1M), on condition that you connect Monterrey to a US city within five years. This is a great deal, but the deal expires 5 years after you accept it, not 5 years after you actually buy the access rights. Messing this one up costs you a $2.5M forfeit
.
3. Not all Mexicans are in total agreement with their government. Which makes them not that unusual, I guess. So after you've paid your $50k fair and square and connected up to Mexico, some of them can turn into banditos who destroy all the filthy Yanqui track and trains they can find south of the Rio Grande. This has only happened to me once in a game. So far. (No.... Not the Steel Mill ... please!... You've got me all wrong, I'm not an evil gringo capitalist.... What about the community centre the company built??!!). So it's probably a good idea to just dip your toes into Mexico at first, just enough to meet the connecting-Monterrey condition and haul some coffee.
4. There's an unusual win condition, apart from PNW and hauling a certain amount of Coffee and Oil: $15M company cash. One I find difficult, but only because I can't hold on to company cash, when it's much more fun using it to take over/buy out everything that moves or doesn't.
I found this campaign scenario hard to like the first few times, but I'm enjoying it more now. I think it's the very slow start which makes it initially a bit boring - but it builds into a very good game.
at every moment on Very Slow speed.It's Texas before the boom: there's really not much going on...
...
...
...tumbleweed...
...
...
This is what makes the challenge at the start of this scenario. There just isn't very much for you to get into, apart from the business of bulls and cows getting on down to making smaller bulls and cows, and the business of turning them all into steaks and hamburgers. You can only watch this enviously from the sidelines for a good few years in this campaign scenario. I'm not saying anything about how lonely it is at the top here - just that a Meatpacking plant, which makes an insane amount of money in Texas, is way beyond your purse at $2.4M. Until you get your company established, those Meatpacking plants are going to be making an insane amount of money for someone else.
And the usual sure-fire way to get an industry start established in RRT3 won't work on this map:
Given the enormous distances, and the lack of industry, running trains (I found) is really just a sideline for the first few years. You can run rails from a likely-looking big 2-3 star city to somewhere else, but after the initial rush, your trains will be carrying nothing at all. This even applies to trains between two big cities, which will trundle along with 2-3 loads after a couple of years. Running rails in the first few years is really only about establishing your rail-territory to prevent an AI company from setting up there - because the same RRT3 rules apply, and having big cities connected will make you a lot of money: it'll just take you about 10 years for it to pay off on this map.
With Mexico behind a $1M access-barrier at the start, this leaves only 3 options for quickly connecting a couple of cities:
1. The obvious Dallas-FW
2. Austin-San Antonio
3. OK City-Lawton (or Amarillo if you're really brave/rich as it's miles away)
Which one you choose depends on where you place your industry - because on this map, it's even more true than usual that an industry start is essential. And the distances (again) mean that you just can't afford to buy/build an industry and run rails to it to supply the raw materials and take away the goodies it produces. Here the undeveloped map works in your favour: your industry can still quickly make money without rails (as long as you place it in an existing supply path) simply because there's no-one else doing what you're doing. Build the industry first, and you can connect it up to markets later.
This is why I don't go for the obvious Dallas-FW connection at the start. Too crowded, all the big-city folk have already sewn everything up
. Lots of lucrative Meatpacking and Textile production, but it's already there and you can't afford to buy in. Your trains will just be helping someone else make more money. Oklahoma City is big, but cut off from Texas by a river in a nasty canyon that needs an expensive bridge. So after a few tries, I decided on Austin-San Antonio as the best option. For one thing, these two cities are close to where I like to start my industry, making linking it in to the markets easier. (You can of course build unconnected track in this scenario, as it's not disabled - but connected track makes more money: just watch how easy it is to take over your rival tycoons who build an initially lucrative 2-city connection out in the sticks).Which industry to get into? Despite the name of the scenario, Oil doesn't really become a thing until many years after the start: there's just one well near Nacogdoches. Meat is too expensive. Alcohol doesn't exist (WHAAAAttt?
). That leaves Clothing, Paper and Lumber. You can do pretty well with Clothing from the Cotton Farms between Houston and Waco, but only until you connect up to the powerful textile industry in Dallas/FW which will swamp your market. Paper is a bit of a later, luxury item. So Lumber was my choice. And an $80K investment, with $800K outside investment, plus one bond and a couple of stock issues will just stretch to the price of a Lumber Mill.There are two clusters of Logging Camps: one near Beaumont and one west of El Dorado. (Sure, there are more up in the north, but every time I've played, they're already hand-in-glove with existing Lumber Mills). El Dorado looks a bit like the middle of nowhere (some conquistador trying too obviously hard to make the town name into a sales-pitch, possibly
). Beaumont does too, but it's near this cute little one-star townlet called Houston, which sounds like some kind of important place I've heard of. And both of them are on the coast. You won't have Ports at Beaumont and Houston at the start, but they'll soon appear - that's where you want to be building your empire, as the Ports demand stuff which your trains can move to them. Further down the coast, there's this gigantic long reef so that you don't get Ports appearing, and thus have no way to make money until the migratory-bird-watching industry gets started up.So I built a Lumber Mill near a place called Huntsville, which confused me as I thought that was in Alabama (RRT3 campaigns are my education in US geography
); and built a completely unrelated railway between Austin and San Antonio. I placed my Lumber Mill wrong a few times, falling foul of a river on the other side of the Logging Camps, which sucked the Logs away from my mill and made the start of production (vitial for you to get a foothold in the rail business before someone else does) slower.For the first couple of years, nothing much happened, except making enough money to get the bond-markets to give me more cash. But soon enough, Huntsville became the hub of a network stretching out to Austin, Waco, Houston and Beaumont. And that gave me enough money to get into the making-little-cows-watching-them-grow-and-turning-them-into-steaks business. Once you've bought into that, you're rollin' (...rollin' rollin'...)
A few other notable things about this scenario:
1. There's hardly any Steel production on the map. Sometimes a mill appears in Austin, but it struggles to produce even 1 load a year due to lack of Coal. At the moment I've just invested in a mill down in the mountains of Mexico where there's Iron and Coal in spades. Hoping to ship the Steel to an Auto Plant on the coast where the Rubber comes in.
2. At one point Mexico will offer you a deal of an amazing $50K access fee (reduced from $1M), on condition that you connect Monterrey to a US city within five years. This is a great deal, but the deal expires 5 years after you accept it, not 5 years after you actually buy the access rights. Messing this one up costs you a $2.5M forfeit
.3. Not all Mexicans are in total agreement with their government. Which makes them not that unusual, I guess. So after you've paid your $50k fair and square and connected up to Mexico, some of them can turn into banditos who destroy all the filthy Yanqui track and trains they can find south of the Rio Grande. This has only happened to me once in a game. So far. (No.... Not the Steel Mill ... please!... You've got me all wrong, I'm not an evil gringo capitalist.... What about the community centre the company built??!!). So it's probably a good idea to just dip your toes into Mexico at first, just enough to meet the connecting-Monterrey condition and haul some coffee.
4. There's an unusual win condition, apart from PNW and hauling a certain amount of Coffee and Oil: $15M company cash. One I find difficult, but only because I can't hold on to company cash, when it's much more fun using it to take over/buy out everything that moves or doesn't.
I found this campaign scenario hard to like the first few times, but I'm enjoying it more now. I think it's the very slow start which makes it initially a bit boring - but it builds into a very good game.
Re: Texas Tea
It's been ages since I played this one, but I don't really any problem getting started. From memory, there were always plenty of logging camps around Houston or somewhere (right side of the map, on a river) and logging > lumber > furniture took off like a rocket, along with paper and whatever else as it suited. As usual, didn't bother with rail at all until industry was well established.
Complete express car and caboose packs - Custom double tankers (Alternative F era) - Pennsy H3 Consolidation
Слава Україні! Героям слава!
Слава Україні! Героям слава! Re: Texas Tea
Yes, it's not a particularly difficult start, but only - I think - if you realise the importance of an industry start and adjust that advice up again by 50%. Though I completely subscribe to Oilcan's recommendation in the Manual to start with industry, this map left me thinking "OK, I've got an industry, but surely I should be laying some rails now?" for much longer than I'm used to in the early years.Gumboots wrote:It's been ages since I played this one, but I don't really any problem getting started. From memory, there were always plenty of logging camps around Houston or somewhere (right side of the map, on a river) and logging > lumber > furniture took off like a rocket, along with paper and whatever else as it suited. As usual, didn't bother with rail at all until industry was well established.
Rails are much more loss-making at the start here (and industry correspondingly more important to get you going) than on some of the preceding maps (Go West, Germantown, CPR). On those maps you're getting into a busy, crowded territory full of people doing things already, who'd just love to have a railroad to move their stuff. In contrast, Texas is relatively undeveloped at the time of this map - and huge, which makes rail connections more expensive. Seeing this made realise the picture of Texas I had in my head - Houston and DFW as gigantic cities, JR Ewing walking around swanky offices in a big ole' hat
. But the way this map is seeded (which may well be historically accurate), before the oil-boom, most of Texas is still a bit of rural backwater.Interesting that you had success with Furniture. I found on this map that Furniture (and Toys) were very vulnerable to the state of the economy. It seemed that demand for both of them dropped through the floor in economic bad times. That would make sense given that they're luxuries, but I wonder whether they're coded like that in the engine, or if it's just my impression and a bit of confirmation bias?
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RulerofRails
- CEO
- Posts: 2061
- Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2013 1:26 am
Re: Texas Tea
I read through all the old posts. So much, Wow! There was only one mention of Livestock. For those who want to play the rails side of this map, that's the key. There are a lot of ranches on this map and it's not too hard to make good money in hauling the stacks of Livestock between a Meat Packing Plant that's well supplied to others that need a few more Moos.
I'm not wishing to start an industry vs. rails start argument with this one. If there is a port is Beaumont a perfectly placed Lumber Mill there can give a really solid start that almost matches what I can do with a rails start on a so-so seeding for rails (this tends to be less ranches around Austin with the method below). However, there are many raw resources on this map and converting more of those into consumer goods does make winding out the $15M cash a little easier, but in time needed I don't think there's much in it. Please bear in mind that with an industry run I was switching focus by about year 3 to rails anyway. Average win should take 6-7 years by my standards (no multiple company tricks) depending on economic state more than anything. Here I am never repaying some bonds and then reaching the total by taking out the rest. To complete without bonds, if we used all 20 bonds we are effectively are saving $25M so add a couple of years to do that.
So here's a decent rail start strategy. Start Austin to Dallas placing stations to get a 30k+ (Hard setting) delivery when hauling the stack (depends on seeding, but should be 15+ loads, for revenue of 600k+) from Austin packer to Dallas. Also use a wooden bridge and route through Waco in such a manner that upon first train delivery you plop a station there. Then, haul Meat from both Austin and Dallas there.
Seeding does present some variations at this point. Either go to Fort Worth or San Antonio depending on which gives better money (does Fort Worth have a functioning Textile Mill?). Of course, look to expand to the other next. The beauty of this setup is that we don't mind where the AI start. It doesn't matter if they have connected to either one. In fact that's a light advantage because you don't have to build a station when making the connection and you get the lucrative express traffic.
Build minimal service, only when you have new money coming in from fresh expansion. Interesting strategy is available with the American vs. Duke. They are both good for different purposes. American is good, but if I have the cash Duke is better for the longer trips. Later on when passengers build up I use the Duke.
When starting a company choosing a 100k player investment and 900k outside investment helps the PNW target a lot. I normally don't issue any stock, but here I issued once to even things out, because that's what's necessary to build a Lumber Mill on the industry route. If possible try to earn 1M profit to get 2.1M book value by the end of the first year. Obviously this is easier if you issue more stock, that's a personal choice. 2.1M book value allows taking out 4 new bonds (normal economy). I believe this isn't possible with an industry start. If you can do it, please let me know how.
Obviously the difficulty is where to go in the second year to continue to have good, high-value haulage opportunities. Places I look immediately: Laredo with a station placed to capture river Livestock; Houston if there is an opportunity to cover a Cotton Farm with the station and Grain to fill up a train or two; Oklahoma City (doesn't matter if the AI are there) if there is a good price difference (20k+) on Livestock from Dallas or Austin.
Later opportunities can include going to Beaumont to capture the stack of Logs out in the river mouth; running Livestock parallel to the Rio Grande down into McAllen with a connection to Piedras Negras which is possible from the US side; and connecting to McAlester to capture the stack as long as you have a (20k+) demand lined up to take Logs to.
Remember to build Hotels especially in hubs and the big cities. The third year is likely the time to do that. Also, buy up plenty of stock since we have a great growth plan. Don't worry about the hauls until you have connected nearby for economic reasons and are sitting on great profit figures.
Here's a view of how my network looks at game end. Notice that my stations aren't centered in some key cities like Austin, Dallas, Laredo, Beaumont and Nacogdoches. The only out-of-city stations I used were at the Coffee farms in Mexico. Also I didn't stop any trains.
There was only one mention of Livestock. For those who want to play the rails side of this map, that's the key. There are a lot of ranches on this map and it's not too hard to make good money in hauling the stacks of Livestock between a Meat Packing Plant that's well supplied to others that need a few more Moos.I'm not wishing to start an industry vs. rails start argument with this one. If there is a port is Beaumont a perfectly placed Lumber Mill there can give a really solid start that almost matches what I can do with a rails start on a so-so seeding for rails (this tends to be less ranches around Austin with the method below). However, there are many raw resources on this map and converting more of those into consumer goods does make winding out the $15M cash a little easier, but in time needed I don't think there's much in it. Please bear in mind that with an industry run I was switching focus by about year 3 to rails anyway. Average win should take 6-7 years by my standards (no multiple company tricks) depending on economic state more than anything. Here I am never repaying some bonds and then reaching the total by taking out the rest. To complete without bonds, if we used all 20 bonds we are effectively are saving $25M so add a couple of years to do that.
So here's a decent rail start strategy. Start Austin to Dallas placing stations to get a 30k+ (Hard setting) delivery when hauling the stack (depends on seeding, but should be 15+ loads, for revenue of 600k+) from Austin packer to Dallas. Also use a wooden bridge and route through Waco in such a manner that upon first train delivery you plop a station there. Then, haul Meat from both Austin and Dallas there.
Seeding does present some variations at this point. Either go to Fort Worth or San Antonio depending on which gives better money (does Fort Worth have a functioning Textile Mill?). Of course, look to expand to the other next. The beauty of this setup is that we don't mind where the AI start. It doesn't matter if they have connected to either one. In fact that's a light advantage because you don't have to build a station when making the connection and you get the lucrative express traffic.
Build minimal service, only when you have new money coming in from fresh expansion. Interesting strategy is available with the American vs. Duke. They are both good for different purposes. American is good, but if I have the cash Duke is better for the longer trips. Later on when passengers build up I use the Duke.
When starting a company choosing a 100k player investment and 900k outside investment helps the PNW target a lot. I normally don't issue any stock, but here I issued once to even things out, because that's what's necessary to build a Lumber Mill on the industry route. If possible try to earn 1M profit to get 2.1M book value by the end of the first year. Obviously this is easier if you issue more stock, that's a personal choice. 2.1M book value allows taking out 4 new bonds (normal economy). I believe this isn't possible with an industry start. If you can do it, please let me know how.
Obviously the difficulty is where to go in the second year to continue to have good, high-value haulage opportunities. Places I look immediately: Laredo with a station placed to capture river Livestock; Houston if there is an opportunity to cover a Cotton Farm with the station and Grain to fill up a train or two; Oklahoma City (doesn't matter if the AI are there) if there is a good price difference (20k+) on Livestock from Dallas or Austin.
Later opportunities can include going to Beaumont to capture the stack of Logs out in the river mouth; running Livestock parallel to the Rio Grande down into McAllen with a connection to Piedras Negras which is possible from the US side; and connecting to McAlester to capture the stack as long as you have a (20k+) demand lined up to take Logs to.
Remember to build Hotels especially in hubs and the big cities. The third year is likely the time to do that. Also, buy up plenty of stock since we have a great growth plan. Don't worry about the hauls until you have connected nearby for economic reasons and are sitting on great profit figures.
Here's a view of how my network looks at game end. Notice that my stations aren't centered in some key cities like Austin, Dallas, Laredo, Beaumont and Nacogdoches. The only out-of-city stations I used were at the Coffee farms in Mexico. Also I didn't stop any trains.
Re: Texas Tea
I just finished this campaign. I think I gained experience in picking industries. Unfortunately, I bought way too much of my own stock on margin. This means for years my purchasing power dipped into the negatives and I had to buy back stock. I could've easily won in 15 years but it took me 21 (I did enjoy buying the electric trains). I only wish the campaign had more to do with oil, given that there were only 6 oil wells on the whole map.
For the resource requirements, I put stations next to the resources so they could easily be shipped elsewhere. The requirements were never a problem.
At the start of the game, the first thing I did was buy an oil well. These are excellent investments (the first one I bought for $280k, made $2,511k at the end) My hotels in Fort Worth and Austin did very well, making $50-$70k a year. Meat packing plants in Fort Worth and Monterrey did well. As expected, livestock and meat seem to be big commodities in the region. I inherited some logging camps from a company I bought that were so-so. A weapons factory in Oklahoma City made $400k one year and lost $200k other years. I probably wasn't supplying it.
At the end of the game I almost think buying industry isn't worth it because it takes a couple years to get a net profit. I didn't put cabooses on any of my trains and by the end they were breaking down frequently. If someone has calculated if cabooses are worth it, I'd really like to know. Other than that I let the game run without interference for a year to reach $15m, then I bought up many thousands of shares of my own company (on margin) to go from PNW of $10m to $15m. My cash is always in the negatives, I wonder if this is a normal thing?
For the resource requirements, I put stations next to the resources so they could easily be shipped elsewhere. The requirements were never a problem.
At the end of the game I almost think buying industry isn't worth it because it takes a couple years to get a net profit. I didn't put cabooses on any of my trains and by the end they were breaking down frequently. If someone has calculated if cabooses are worth it, I'd really like to know. Other than that I let the game run without interference for a year to reach $15m, then I bought up many thousands of shares of my own company (on margin) to go from PNW of $10m to $15m. My cash is always in the negatives, I wonder if this is a normal thing?
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RulerofRails
- CEO
- Posts: 2061
- Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2013 1:26 am
Re: Texas Tea
Industries could be compared to safe assets in real life, for example bonds. The main idea with industries is to buy one that is reliably supplied in a good demand area, and calculate the ROI it can make compared to the purchase/build cost. The assumption (well-founded as long as supply and demand is solid) is that the industry will make approx. that return every single year for the rest of the scenario. 20% ROI is about an average for the sort of investments to look for as a start.
In the change to a poorer economy, the price of all cargoes drop. Rail revenue drops in direct relation to this. But, industries are more sheltered because the cost of their input goes down in addition to the cost of their output. This means that their costs are lower, and they don't see as great a drop in actual profit.
In the change to a poorer economy, the price of all cargoes drop. Rail revenue drops in direct relation to this. But, industries are more sheltered because the cost of their input goes down in addition to the cost of their output. This means that their costs are lower, and they don't see as great a drop in actual profit.