Central Pacific

[Hawk]

The following text is a compilation of what was salvaged from the old Gathering Forum. It contains postings from several different people.
Thanks goes out to Wolverine for putting this all together.

Hawk

Central Pacific
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ARGH!! This scenario has me going insane. Even following the tips in the Brady Guide, i'm still having miserable results. I connect Salt Lake City to Provo, set up a train, then more rail to Filmore. Things already become thin at this point. By the time i've connected to Pioche, it's late in the scenario, runs are modest at best and it'll take me 1.2 million just to burrow tunnels into this chunk of the Sierra Madre's. No, i'm not going to lay track ON it because it's solid RED... through seems to be the only alternative.
Anyway, there's NO way i can make it to Tonopah before 1870 and the last time i played it, it was 1872 and i was still unable to save enough money to burrow through the mountain to Tonopah.
Which brings me to a couple of questions i have about the mechanics of the game.
Let's say i have cities: A, B, C, D, E. When i create a train, let's say i charter it to stop at Cities A, B and E. Does that mean on its way back that it'll do the reverse of: E, B, and A or does it run it's normal line, A, B, then E, then go back to City A to start the route over again?
Also, i buy a fruit orchard. Woo. It's modestly profitable. Should i look at building an infrastructure of small rails near those business' that i buy that aren't in the city? That is, let's say i've got about three small investments that are In The Sticks. Should i put a small depot station near each of those investments, then have a train darting back and forth between them, or does just the mere act of investing in those business' automatically mean they're getting to market using MY trains?
I have another question about the game, but it escapes me now. Oh well, i'll post it once i remember it. Meanwhile, i appreciate anyone's wisdom on these conundrums.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If your train route is like this: A - B - E, the train will start at A, go to B, then E then from E to A and start over
If your fruit orchard is close to a city connected by rail the production from this orchard will travel by itself to the city, and then onto your railroads (that is off course if it is probitable to go in the direction you train goes, if produce is needed in the west and all your trains are going east its not gonna happend).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Start around Sacramento. Buy the still there and haul fruit to it. That way you get paid by the farmers for hauling the fruit, plus you earn money from the distillery. Then connect to all those thirsty soldiers around San Francisco. Build industry that will serve the soldiers at both ends - lumber mills, munitions factories, weapons factories. Gradually work your rails from California eastwards. If you have money but are short on track allowance, use tunnelling to build a more direct route to get tto SLC sooner. When construction is complete, about when Consolidations are available, run full express trains between SLC and SF. And don't forget about the barracks on the north side of the bay.
Actually, you can meet the troop haul requirement just by hauling troops around the bay before the railroad is built
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't know if anyone took this approach, but I went to the US Gov's transportation maps archive to see where the route historically went for the CP to Salt Lake City.
After I examined the maps they have (MrSID viewer is great!), I went back to the scenario with my city list and I actually saw the grade up the Sierra Nevadas that must have come from some sort of DEM (digital elevation model) map RRT 3 devs used to create this.
The historical path is the following...
Sacramento (up the side of the Sierra Nevadas following the faint yet distinct grade)
Reno
Winnemucca
Humboldt River Valley
Wells
North above the Great Salt Lake and South to SLC.
Or, skip Promontory Point, UT and head across the desert and up a little to SLC.
The only problem I ran into was I didn't like the 8% grade through the pass at the summit of the Sierra Nevadas just before Reno.
I haven't completed the scenario, I ran my company into the ground cos I'm such a noob, but I did find that little tidbit for you all..
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As the title says, i nailed the Going West scenario and have learned some things about routing along the way.
The way i won gold was mostly the fact that i issued bonds after bonds after bonds until no one would issue me bonds anymore. This gave me enough money to penetrate the Sierra's to Reno. Sure, there were traffic jams in the tunnel and an ocassional breakdown where i couldn't see it, but overall, once i was able to connect SF to SJ then eventually to Sacramento and then Reno, it was all downhill from that point on. I bought a few industtries (post office, restaurant, hotel) when i could but nothing in the way of a serious investment (meat packing plant). I ferried all my troops with about 3 years to spare!
As for setting up routes, let's say i have cities: A, B, C, D & E . The way i'mm setting my routes up now is like this: Start at A, C, E, then on the way back, cities D and B. I try to alternate between small town and big towns. So far it's a pretty good method.
Oh, a tip of the keyboard for the people at PopTop and G.oD. Doom 3? forget it. My favorite crack right now is most definately RRT3.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You might also want to set up a train to go A-B-D-E-C so you pick up and deliver to each city from both directions.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Though synth posted this about 2 months ago... having just received Gold on Normal (and being newly registered) I thought I could reply. I've done the Go West and Germantown campaigns, and the Mississippi Valley scenario prior to playing Central Pacific.
Starting out, I felt that Sacramento would be a good place because of it's proximity to the port of S.F., lots of farms nearby (hauling prospects), and decent size. Eventually I imagined a tunnel through the mountains to Reno...
After connecting the cities in the valley with SF and San Jose, I was about to do a mountain circumvent, but with my brewery in Stockton and meat packing plant in Sacremento, realized that I was bringing in close to $1 mil in profits a year. Less than four years would give me the almost $5 mil needed to tunnel from between Sac and Yuba City directly to Reno. Connecting Sacramento and Reno yielded millions!
After that, it was basically a track laying operation direct to Salt Lake, with spurs to Carson, Ruby Hills, Gabba, and Cherry Creek, all being financed by the lucrative commerce between Sac and Reno. A couple of express trains from Slc to Reno and SF to Reno pulled off the troop trick in two years, and I was done in 1871.
Now just to think if there were competitors in that map... yikes!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Reno? Why would you bother with Reno?
I have built a company based on Sacramento-SF connection and then tunneled through the mountains from Stockton to Tonopath. From there it is almost flat to the Salt Lake City. Gold medal several years in advance.
The tunnel was 10 millions, heheh. I have issued the maximum amount of bonds, but at the 5% rate, so I could support this with no problem.
And the tunnel has the advantage of low maintenance cost and shorter connection and lower inclination (mine was 3%) - so it's just perfect.
Ah - playing on Normal.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Personally, I avoid tunnels during the initial connection. I run the rail up through the northern slope at the top of the map and dig my way into the mountains. Screw Reno, it isn't even in the path. Anyway, once I get up onto the mountin tops, then I start to zig zag my way to Salt Lake City. Make it a crude path, that is what the Union Pacific did; the track was put down hastily and was far less than perfect. Just get the track down. Once you manage to plant your track at SLC, the troops will start to brew up. This takes a while, so you really want to be sure you a crummy track there as soon as possible, and just have trains haul cargo out of SLC to wherever; the route is long and treacherous enough that the $ will be there. OK, here is where it gets important for troop hauling. You need to build 2 trains at Salt Lake City, both of which are programmed to haul only troops. Make them stay there until a minimum of 5 troops each are onboard, and fit the train with a caboose for safety. DON'T let those trains move until they are fattened up with troops! Once the trains are set to go, make the "high priority" and have them lay a b-;ine for San Fran. If you have the extra $ (which you should by now) pause the game and tunnel through the mountains and into Sacramento. This will shave a lot of time off of your trip (months).
Anyway, to make a long story short, the key is to lay a track to Salt Lake City right away, and make "waiting trains" at SLC strictly for troops. Consolidations move fast, so have them haul your troops, not Shays or Americans.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dont waste money building a tunnel to Reno. If you zoom out and have Sacramento at the very bottom with Yuba city and Chico facing north,you will notice a faint white line to the northeast from Sacramento on the side of the mountain. Following this route will give you a decent grade up the mountains at a much cheaper cost. Once you hook up to Reno you can make a lot of money hauling goods to Reno. Later on you can take the money you saved not tunneling and double track the mountain route and run double trains to Reno and beyond to help overcome any bad grades.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Reno? Why would you bother with Reno?
Because there's a fortune to be made by exploiting Reno? Call me crazy but Reno figured prominately into my success for that mission.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You'd actually be surprised how much wealth can come out of those small one-star towns to the North. Something "Mills" (can't remember) actually has a decent amount to offer, and going through those 3 towns up there brings you as much as Reno, maybe more.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That is correct, heh, I would be surprised if connecting to these cities was very profitable There was nothing interesting there except iron, and not so much of that either. I had much more iron available on the southern side of the map, and that is where is dig the tunnel. After that I could haul stuff much faster than if it went the northern route.
Can you remember what was the cost of connecting to Reno?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
wrote:
That is correct, heh, I would be surprised if connecting to these cities was very profitable There was nothing interesting there except iron, and not so much of that either. I had much more iron available on the southern side of the map, and that is where is dig the tunnel. After that I could haul stuff much faster than if it went the northern route.
Can you remember what was the cost of connecting to Reno?
You make money by hauling goods to Reno. Things like lumber,goods,and other things that arent avalible in that area go for a very pretty penny! Last time I played it on hard I could run a 5 car train of just goods for close to 300k.
The cost for hooking up Reno going up the side of the mountain from Sacramento will only cost a couple of million. And you will make that money back in a very short amount of time.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
300k is very impressive. But isn't it one-time deal? Like if you stuff them full of whatever they wanted, they will be satisfied for several years? And you still need to pay track maintenance all the time. And you are still in the middle of the mountais and have to somehow connect to SLC.
With my tunnel I was already on the flat ond running towards SLC. And the tunnel maintenance cost is negligible - in fact I was able to pay back the bonds for tunneling before I managed to transport the required amount of troops to SF.
Anyhow, I am just promoting my idea as a non-standard solution for this scenario. It's probably non realistic, but still an interesting alternative.
OK, back to the campaign - I'm not even half done yet/
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
wrote:
300k is very impressive. But isn't it one-time deal? Like if you stuff them full of whatever they wanted, they will be satisfied for several years? And you still need to pay track maintenance all the time. And you are still in the middle of the mountais and have to somehow connect to SLC.
It takes several car loads of EVERYTHING up to Reno before it starts going down. Even with three trains going from Sacrament to Reno,5 car max,it takes several years before the price goes down but even then you still make a lot of money.
From Reno you can then hook to Carson. You can then find a decent route to Winnemucca,then follow the river to Wells then its off to Salt Lake City. I'm usually having to wait each year for more rail to keep building even with taking the extra track for 100k a year option. Once the Consoidation becomes availible the grades for this route have no real effect.
If I knew how to post pics on this site I would post some screen shots of my route.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Consolidation? I have finished before it was available
(Almost)
Nice idea about the screenshots. I need to "activate" my web space on the ISP provider and I will post mine.
About the corgo: it takes just a few months for the price to drop down, once the cargo arrives. You must be using the trick of sending many trains *before* the first one arrives - hence no drop in price. Must be the mountains slowing down the trains
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Actually, I usually finish this scenario before the consolidation comes out; sometimes it just becomes available right in time for me to load one up with troops. The Northern route is indeed fastest. Going through Reno will work just fine, but it does take longer. I have tested both routes and found that the track, tunnels and bridges used in the Northern route cost far less than getting in and out of Reno, and you kinda kill two birds with one stone in that you have a b-line right to SLC once you hit the top of the mountains in the North. Where I like to connect to Reno is after I have laid my crude track to SLC. By the time my troops are ready to move out, I generally have enough money to blast my way into Reno and through to Sacremento. The troop trains then take that route, saving a ton of time.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here is my track right after getting the gold.
http://nowakus.free.fr/Central%20Pacific%20Marcin.jpg
Only 7 stations on the whole way...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ah, I have never had as much success with that route. Try going up through Yuba, Chico, Fall River Mills, and Susanville. If you REALLY want, you can connect Reno too, but I usually don't even bother. The route from Susanville to SLC is really direct from that point on, and can be laid using only bridges to save cost. Let me know how you make out.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It was a LONG time ago, but I went the southern route over the mountains too. No tunnels though, just a gut-wrenching climb. Sure comes back from Salt Lake fast though.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Doing this one on hard, get the two barracks towns connected with 10 years to go (says so in log book). A Gold should be easy I think....
Despite 6 troop dedicated trains, mostly waiting for cargo, only 8 or so troops were actually generated in the whole 10 years. By my reckoning there should be 8 per year - 4 each direction. What went wrong ? In San-Francisco bay there was a 4th barracks across the river, but no troops wanted to go there (San-Francisco junction).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just completed the Central Pacific Scenario. I won the gold, but did not complete the stated objectives. I hauled 12 troops from Carson to Sacramento and as soon as I connected to Salt Lake City, I won the gold. I never even hauled 1 troop between SF and SLC, didn't even have a train on the route.
Fortunately I have a save game from just before I connected to SLC, and anyone can easily repeat the bug by just making the SLC connection. I also have a screenshot, but have nowhere I can post.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I discovered this same bug last night, but in a different way...I connected to SLC first, then started to haul troops. One train arrived from SLC to Sacramento delivering four troop cars, but then by the next year I somehow had ten delivered, even though my three troop trains hadn't made a delivery to either Sacramento or SLC! I was very confused, but happy with the gold.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I had a bug too but different. As soon as I connected SLC, it showed I had 2 troops hauled when I hadn't even picked any up yet. I missed the gold but had them all delivered within a year later.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I moved troops between carston and SF too and then just laid down "burn track" to SLC (check H&P for a definition of "burn track"). I don't think it's a bug, I moved 12 troops, why would the SF people care where they came from?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Briefing says troops must be moved from SF to SLC, I didn't use either.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I didn't see this when I played that scenerio. However, I bet I know what is happening... with the new feature, of cargo (people) moving by themselves now (walking.boat.etc) I'd be willing to be that is how they did it. Maybe you had some random barracks laying around just outside one city or the other.
This was scenerio was also way too easy =/
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cant seem to generate troops at barracks, I send alcohol weapons munitions etc. but still no troops forthcoming. Anybody got any answers???
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There is a scenario which I just finished that requires you to haul 10 loads of troops from one city to another (San Fran to Salt Lake I think). I had a problem generating the troops because I put my station outside the peninsula.
I had to run track around and drop a new station on the tip where all the barracks are at San Fran and then instantly there were 3 loads of troops at both San Fran and Salt Lake.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Barracks must be within the radius of a station to send/receive troops.
Make sure you run trains between stations with barracks, even if they don't have any troops at first. This sort of 'primes the pump' - over time, troop volume will grow.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Like in 10 years you might get 7 troops between 4 barracks and 4 barracks - Happened to me. Scenario mission is bugged with at least one layout where barracks are spread on two sides of the bay at San Francisco. Got saved games to prove it - mentioned it earlier on the forum but no one seemed interested.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am on the 3rd scenario where you have to ship 10 loads of troops to Salt Lake, but i cannot ship steel from Provo to Santa Rosa where my ammo factory is, there are 13.6 loads of steel at Provo and my train says waiting for more cargo. Without the steel i cannot make ammo so there for i cannot make ammo then send it to San Fran where my barracks are to make troops. There is a steel factory but no coal available and the only steel available is at Provo. I guess i cant get the gold medal, unless there is something i dont understand plz help.
(Edited after i re-avaluated)
There is a warehouse that the steel is coming from but its closer to Salt Lake also it is in the radius of my station at Salt Lake but it is sending the steel to Provo to a tool and die, and i believe this is why i cannot ship the steel so now my question is how do i get that warehouse to send the steel to Salt Lake?
Quote: Scenario mission is bugged with at least one layout where barracks are spread on two sides of the bay at San Francisco. Got saved games to prove it - mentioned it earlier on the forum but no one seemed interested.
My scenario is the one mentioned with 1 of the barracks on the other side of bay out of my station radius.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Everyone missunderstood you i think. Your problem is that you missunderstood that troops arent produced by delivering all the stuff into the barracks. The barracks just has the demand for all of it, but delivrting it doesnt mean it will produce troops afaik.
Troops are just like passengers probably, matter of time...
Feel free to correct me, thats just the way i thought it work;)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Third scenario objectives:
Bronze - Connect Sacramento, California with Salt Lake City, Utah before 1876.
Silver - Bronze conditions and have a company book value of at least $10 million dollars before 1876.
Gold - Achive all the above but also move 10 car loads of TROOPS between Salt Lake City and San Francisco before 1876.
You know how I won the gold (Easy difficulty)?
I connected Sacramento-Salt Lake City around 1867 and by then I had $10 million in CBV. I didn't connect to San Francisco at all, and I didn't move even one troop to any place, but I still won the gold. How?!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Are you sure you didn't move any troops? The auto-consist will take whatever is most valuable...maybe you were moving troops and not knowing it?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Even if I was, I'm supposed to move them to S. Francisco, which I didn't even have a station in.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Finished that one last night and I had something similar happen. I connected the cities and then made two trains, each had 5 cars dedicated for troops. One started at SF the other SLC. Each was to wait until full before heading out.
I goofed and accidentally did something weird with the SF train's consist and it left the station so I ordered it back. I'm positive it had 8 cars w/ only 1-2 passenger cars. I didn't check to see what on them as I caught it as soon as it tried to leave.
Then my goals page said I had moved 3 troops.
My SLC train loaded up first and got to SF. It had 5 troop cars 100% full. So 3+5 should = 8 but the goal sheet said 7.
Very odd.
I'm guessing either the troops did some sort of overland movement to a train station as I hit my rail limit 1 town away from SLC and then did the connecting ride thing between my 'locals' and got to SF. Or when I reversed the train at SF it had troops and since it left SF w/ troops and arrived there w/ troops that equaled troop movement.
But that doesn't explain the 3 and 7 unless it was actually suppose to show 2 and somehow the code goofed or was wrong...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It's correct. I bet you that the last train was only 60% or 80% full. Which meant you actually had 7.6 or 7.8 loads, but not 8 loads.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
But still, my case is way weirder. Starting the scenario at SLC and headed to Sacramento, I didn't touch SF at all, and I got gold just when I connected Sacramento.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Seems everyone has been bringing this one up. As soon as I connected to SLC I won gold because I had been moving troops between Carson and Sacramento. I still have the save game from right before the connection to SLC is made. It appears that the game is just counting troops moved, but doesn't care where they are going.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
wrote:
It's correct. I bet you that the last train was only 60% or 80% full. Which meant you actually had 7.6 or 7.8 loads, but not 8 loads.
No I double checked as it pulled out and all were at 100% loaded.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
hi to all, i demand to all person who finisch this map.
My problems are that to build a tunnel to pass mountain, it's more expensive.....and there's not more industries to build up a solid economic system.
anyone has hints?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm assuming that you mean the campaign Central Pacific. If so then you dont need to build any tunnels. If you center your camara at Sacaramento and look northeast,you will see a "path" in the mountains. It actually looks like a trail because of its lighter green colors. Just follow that path up the side of the moutain to Reno trying to keep the grade % as low as possible. Just remeber that when building track in the mountains,straighter is not always better.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks, i see this solution too, but in this matter you take more and more time to build around mountain.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I got the gold with the difficulty set to "hard" by heading due north from Sacramento and turning northeast after Redding. It's out of the way, but it avoids having to spend all your money on a tunnel. I've also seen a screen shot from someone else who got the gold by heading south, but I think the grade is not as bad going north.
Yes, it's out of the way, but since the grade isn't that bad, you'll be able to ship your troops in time.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello, to get lot of gold, connect backward to San Fransico and its neighbouring towns.
Then, I get North and climb on the Norther Sierra nevada. At this time, I have enought gold to draw near a straight line to Salt lake city, automaticaly making bridges and tunels .... I win with gold medal many years before deadline.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I too used that method to win gold
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have made the same route as you and now I'm wondering how low/high could you get your grades at the track from Sacramento up to Reno.
I managed to keep my grades from 0-5%. The rest of the track from Frisco to Salt Lake I managed to keep my grades below 3% and because I didn't use double-track (the hidden switches) I had an even higher average speed on this campain than the 2. campain although the 2. didn't have any mountains.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I believe I had the same grades as you did between Sacramento and Reno. I also made a point of having a maintenance shed and water tower at the base of the valley,and a water tower at the top of the mountain to avoid backups on the higher grades. I also took the option to pay 100k every year for an additional 25 miles of track each year which allowed me to double track between Sacramento and Reno to improve effecincy without making it harder to get to Salt Lake City.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
How did you make it to Gold anyway?
I connected SF and SLC 12 years before time limit ran out - and it took those cities six years to produce the first troop cargo.
I never even had 10 loads of troops on this map, so how could I transport them?
I´ve read in another thread (that got no answer) that someone had the same problem. Is that a bug, or am I doing something wrong?
(PS: I use the German version, patched to 1.02)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, to get Gold I don't really know. The only thing I can say is that :
- I make gold linking Sacramento don San F. and its Neighborhood (trains transporting full huge loads of military things to Sacramento)
- Use this gold to make a straight path North at the top of the map, climbing on the sierra nevada and then creating near a straight line to Salt lake city.
- Once linking, creating 2 trains Sacramento - Salt Lake City (on opposites ways), with min 1 load and max 8 load, with no stops between the to stations.
After a couple of years winning with the gold medal.
The problem is not the amount of gold but the length of new track each year that stops the building of the trail.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Got the gold on this one.
Made money in san fran to nearby places. Also picked up some local industry. Once I had the money rolling in, and Built up and over. Got both places connected by 1868. Created some regular trains, and also two tropp trains (troops only, leave when 2 cars full). Made it by 1873.
I did notice that if you don';t grab the troops, they deteriorate. So, if i grabed two car fulls of troops, it tehn started to build more. However, it I waited for 3 cars, at around 2.8, it would suddenly drop back to 1.3. ?? I guess they walked rather then wait for me.
The other thing I noticed is that I didn't actually have to get the troops TO san fran. As soon as the last troops boarded the trains and the train left the station, I won. Wierd, huh? I was expecting it would come to the wire on whether my train would get there before the clock ran out.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It's a bug, I didn't even haul any troops to Salt Lake none of my troops went further than Carson and I still made gold.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
OK, first off prior to buying RRT3 a couple of weeks I have no experience with earlier Railroad games. So please do not assume I know any of the basic tricks.
I am working my way thru the US campaign and am on the third scenario, the Central Pacific transcontinental one. I'm having trouble because I can't seem to generate any sizable profit. I've been trying to start in the west and build east towards SLC, figureing that there was enough population and cargoes in CA to fund my track laying, but that doesn't seem to be the case. Taking out a bond (I can only do one, after that my credit rating is too low) gets me enough money to build track out to Reno, but the interest eats any profits I can make on the skimpy cargo loads available.
Should I be buying industries with my starting money? Should I be connecting different cities than SF and Sacto? Any suggestions?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sacramento is a key city. I start with that as my main hub. CP gets paid for hauling fruit so usually I start with buying a distillery in Sacramento and hauling fruit to it, buying the orchards too. Some are along the route to the north side of San Francisco Bay where there is a barracks or two, so I look to haul fruit in, alcohol back. I also take the track deal, that gives a bigger track allowance so I can finish sooner.
To continue, I make a lot of connections in the San Joaquin and Sacramento valleys and make a lot of dough. As it rolls in I build weapons, munitions and lumber industries, whatever is missing, in the cities near Salt Lake, and near the resources they need.
Now it's cha-ching time with industries all over the place making money, weapons buying lumber, barracks buying booze, and I build the rail east any way I want, as long as it's mostly single track. By the time the connection is made, I am so rich the size of the troop train doesn't matter. So I put 3 express on Consolidations going each way, and keep loading them wherever there is a soldier with his thumb out. The short train means i don't have to worry much about getting a perfect slope.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This scenario partly depends on your setting. On Easy you can connect Sacramento and SF single line plus Stockton on day one because your large station in SF can be on the east and will be large enough to include the barracks. On Hard setting its service area isn't big enough to include these so it's a waste going there and you should just keep going north from Stockton connecting every small place back to Sacramento or both S and S). I found this brought me in enough money to keep me going until I got to Winnemuca (hard work building along the river) so then I connected to SF and San Jose. Next I took out lots of bonds (perhaps to get me to SLC and put on a troops only train (you need at least 3 years to haul 10) and found that they definitely weren't interested in going to SF unless the barracks were connected so had to build round the river back to the barracks and put in a station there and then the troops flowed. Always use single line because of the restriction.
On Hard Stockton Sacramento is the early money maker. Except for the troops I never used custom consist. Going to Reno does work on Easy setting but not Hard because there aren't enough towns and hence money that way
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I found that the Humboldt River in this scenario actually hindered construction too much. So I opted to go through Pioche and over the Sierras to Stockton that way. But you have to build up some money making lines in California first before you start going across Nevada. I built around Sacramento, and also connected SLC to Provo to provide steady income.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I've been playing on Easy since I'm more interested in having some relaxing fun running trains around than nail-biting competition. I also haven't been really paying attention to buying industries since I thought railroads were more profitable and more the focus of the game.
Sounds like I should try a SF-Sacto-Stockton line to start, plow the profits from that into buying some Produce Farms and a Distillery/Brewery. Then five (?) years expanding in CA before beginning to head east.
The few times that I've gotten far enough to get the "bribe us to get extra track" event I turned it down because I couldn't afford it. Which brings up this question. How much track does it take to make the link? How much can I afford to use linking up CA cities?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On Easy you can definitely afford to wait for a second/third extra track offer. I only ever bought one business - and that was on Hard - something somewhere at the head of the valley before turning East. You should be able to win without using Industry. The main trick is getting the station in SF positioned to take in the barracks from across the water - before you build a line put (hover) a large station in various places and see what area it covers - obviously without actually buying it - then, when you've found the best place, build your line from Sacra and voila.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
At first I concentrated on setting up my rail so I could haul the five produce per year and get the bonus for doing so. Then I built a distillery to process the stuff, and make me some money.
Once that was in place, I built Sac-Reno, and then headed for SLC, using the long southern loop avoiding mountains. I always had enough track, and never bribed to get more
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The scenario description here is wrong too.
You don't need to run the troops from SF to that other city. Any load of troops from any city to any other city will count. Well, it did when I played that, but it might have changed in one of the patches.
I had another barrack on the top of the mountains, much closer to the valley. I first connected all the cities in the valley and then went up the mountains to that city with a barrack. I had my troop-loads even before I completed the connection-goal.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thank you for the help everyone. The last troop train finished its run in early 1870.
I couldn't get a station in Oakland or Marin to cover the Presidio (barracks in SF), so I ended up running the line from SF south thru San Jose to Stockton and then Sacramento. The profits from that funded the drive east. Just have to remember that the scenario goals are what you should do _after_ you have a profitable company, not what you should start out doing.

[ribblehead viaduct]

I managed to win gold on medium setting without having to move troops to the real San Francisco. My map had a cluster of 3 Logging camps about 2/3 of the way between Sacremento and San Juan, and I had built a Lumber mill at San Juan in the overland path from the camps. When I connected Sacremento to San Juan I also placed a station to cover the 3 camps, and the game called it San Francisco. When I connected to the real San Francisco, the game called it San Francisco junction. Since the criteria for gold was shipping troops from Salt Lake City to San Francisco, I won gold by shipping those troops to my cluster of Logging camps!

[RayofSunshine]

After reading "nearly" all the previous thread on this particular scenario, I find that there are "several" ways to obtan the medals. Maybe not the 'gold', but to complete the medal requirements. I believe that the only "method" which I had not tried, as it was years ago, to the routing out of Stockton to SLC. Will have to give that one a try, as I really enjoyed the concept and challenge.
There are bugs in it, or at least "were", but it was the enjoyment of this creation. For comments of my method, it was from suggestions of other players. SAC being the base, buying a "distillery", and basically connecting a majority of cities. Each time I obtained and amount of revenue, 300-500K, I used 1/2 of it to lay track on the "path" incline to Reno. Never built a tunnel from the valley, but did on occasion thru the mountains, when necessary, between Reno and SLC. They are just too costly in maintainence for too many, and too long.
Being that there were barracks at SFO, once being connected and troops started to accummulate, I had an engine standing by, "custom loaded" for 4 troops at a time. Once loaded, it would travse ""toward"" SLC, but would be stopped short, until SLC was actually connected. So that was 3 train loads. Once SLC was connected, such "custom loads" were started for the valley. This way there was a safeguard against "crashes" and or "broken down" trains, as well as problems with the economy.
I can assume that I also made some "bond issues", as it took an amount of revenue for the expenditures, over that of just plain revenue from hauling of express and cargoes.

Although I do not particularily """like""" mountainous terrain, I really enjoyed the concept of this scenario, and believe the map was well created in topography. Not necessarily actual acurite, but adequate for the purpose for which it was created.

Hats off to its creator, although his name slips my memory at this time, and considering the number of creations which he has put forth. Damed to get old, as I could look it up, but then I forgot to check previous to this thread.

[RayofSunshine]

I said that my mind was slipping, or gone. After completing the thread previous, I got to think about "who" the creator, and went to look for the Scencario. Well, I back tracked my inventory, even into previous Editions without any result. Well, other than not finding it. It would be hard to play, when it cannot be found.

That scenario is so vivid in my mind, well at least the part that is still working, and it is probable that some of those threads recovered were part of my comments.

So need help for its location, as I thought that I would like to take the challenge to try that Stockton route to SLC.

[Hawk]

This scenario was included in the official Coast to Coast Expansion. It's not on my site. It should be in the list of maps in your game, if you have the Coast to Coast Expansion installed, or if you haven't moved it out.

[RayofSunshine]

Thanks Hawk,

I didn't think to look into my RT3 regular maps/scenarios. If there was any chance that I would have moved it, it would have been in my inventory. However, I didn't do that, and it was there, alphabetically for the inquiry check.

Thanks again, as I will give it a try, but I have to complete a number of other scenarios which I have been playing for the challenges.

[RayofSunshine]

Okay Hawk,

The C to C were basically scenarios which were "user" creations. It is possible that it was in the C to C batch to be my first time to play it. However, I thought that I had played it prior to the time that C to C was released. Now, I have made a few mistakes in my day , so that may not be the case. BUT I would believe that IF it had been a previous scenario, that I would have it in my inventory, of which I don't. Then again, I don't know why I don't have it copied into my invertory either. Guess I will have to check on the rest of those C to C to see if any of them are in my inventory either. Getting old and forgetful. HOWEVER, I can't pull out my head hairs, as I don't have that many to spare.

[Hawk]

There I go again. Trying to depend on my memory.

Central Pacific is not a scenario map. It's a campaign map (the third one) and it came with the original RRT3 V-1.

[RayofSunshine]

Take advantage of it Hawk,

Capabilities of memories can and usually change as we get older. But until that time, at least one of us has to be on top of things, to help the rest of us.

Thanks for the info, as the Campaign was the last place I would have, and did not look. However, I did remember and recall all the different times I had played the scenario, trying to find the best routes.

Just odd the things which a person remembers, and the things which that person can't and don't remember.

[RayofSunshine]

I really like this scenario, even though I don't particularily like mountainous terrain.

As some players, using SAC as a base, it took me a few attempts to finally realize that the creator indicated a route via the use of a "very light" path just up from SAC. And then the """fun???"" started in trying to lay track without using too many tunnels. Tunnels are really a boon with RT3, but costly to maintain.

Anyway, I did manage to get a route to SLC, and did get the Gold. Don't know what level as it was years ago with those first attempts.

But now, but only playing the Medium level. I took a suggestion of laying the track via Stockton and along the every edge of the map. Some steep climbs and many curves, but did manage to get "over the top" to Tonopah. At this point I used the Fairlie 0660. Time was not pressing, so I "got on board" and took the trip to Tonopah, and built the water/sand towers where necessary. I like to do that on long runs and especially in mountainous terrain. It's only a game, so why not have some fun. I hoped trains as a youngster, so why not as an adult.

Any way that seemed to be a longer route, but this time just beyond Tonopah, there were a couple of Iron Mines, which gave me a ""real good"" revenue back down the mountain top. Good as in this scenario there was a "tool-and'die" which only needed Iron for Goods.

There was lots of time being 1866, so there wasn't much concern for the goal of the 10 troops, but the depots were not "generous" with their supply. It too a while for it to dawn on me , that although the scenario had the initial troops of ""2"" at both SLC and SFO, that troops were on a 1/1 basis. So I just bought a number of engines, custom loaded the troops, and just let them set and wait for the incoming supply trains.

Got Gold by 1872, and just kept playing. However, once 1876 rolled around, I no longer received the 100 lengths of track. I didn't really need it, but could have used it to traverse the mountains to get the supply of logs for the lumber mill in Chao.

Was just a lot of fun. Might go back and try the Expert to see what the differnce.
And again, I really like this scenario in its concept.

Thank you creator.

[Gumboots]

I was just revisiting this old campaign map again, and think it could do with a little tweaking.

I found out about the troop hauling bug. If you check the map in the editor, it only counts LTD troops hauled. This makes things a bit too easy IMO.

The way to do it would be to divide the map up into hidden territories, with the border roughly halfway betwen SLC and SF, then rewrite the event to count troops hauled between territories. Maybe also have another event to disallow counting troop loads before SLC and SF are connected (if an event like that can be written).

There's another bug with an event which is written into the map but never shows up during play. That is supposed to allow you the option of buying better acceleration, but it bugs out due to the test condition being incorrect. I don't think it's really needed anyway.

Another thing is that you can't sandbox this map after getting gold, because it just doesn't allocate you any more track. It'd be good to have it allocate some large amount of track on getting a medal (something like 1,000,000) so you can keep playing if you want to.

As it stands, given the very limited amount of track available, and given that this map is insanely lucrative in terms of cashflow*, the obvious thing to do is to use tunnels as much as possible. They definitely reduce the amount of track needed between Pioche and Sacramento.

For $5.5 million (which is less than a year's profit at this stage of the game) you can get a 2% grade on a tunnel between Carson and Sacramento, which makes for very fast and easy transport between the two. Add a couple more short tunnels in the nasty bits between Carson and Pioche and you will have a very good system, for the minimum amount of track.

If the editor allows it, and I haven't checked if it's possible yet, it might be good to disallow tunnels if an extra challenge was wanted.


*Yes, it really is insanely lucrative. Forget hauling produce down in the valley. If you start up around SLC, this map gives you huge reserves of livestock, logs, pulpwood and iron. You can spew out as much meat, lumber, paper, goods, weapons and ammunition as you like, for almost nothing in raw materials cost. The barracks in SLC will eat the entire year's production of weapons and ammunition from one factory (not upgraded) of each. The general area will easily eat up the goods from two upgraded tool and dies. One upgraded lumber mill is sufficient. It's best to not upgrade the meatworks or the paper mill, just so you don't oversaturate the local market.

By the time you connect to San Franscisco, the company should be generating around 8 or 9 million of clear profit every year, and you will be wondering what else you can spend it on. By the time of the game limit (end of 1875) the company should be competely out of debt, with a book value over $100 million.

[Gumboots]

By the way, if anyone is determined to get up the range without using tunnels, this is the best way of doing it. The track sweeps around just to the south of Sacramento, but is close enough so that a large station can still easily cover the entire town.

This puts it on a good line towards San Francisco but, more importantly, allows you to get about a third of the way up the range with grades of 3% or less. Even in the steepest part (last two thirds of the climb) there are only three track units which have 6% grade. About half of them are 5%, with the rest being 3% or 4%. The slight snaking of the track up the last section makes a big difference to the grades.

http://i.imgur.com/5khCUVf.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/UVOBEsb.jpg

--------------------------------------------------------

ETA: On another play of this map, I did try doing it all without tunnels, and also following the original route of the real railway via Winnemucca and Wells. This is quite possible with reasonable grades, but does chew up a lot more track than taking a direct route with tunnels via Tonopah and Carson. So, following the original route will delay getting to San Francisco by a couple of years, just to wait for the extra track allowance to accumulate.

Which led me to another thought. Given the cashflow available in this scenario, I think the track allowance is too small. You end up just sitting around with piles of cash for a couple of years, waiting to get a little bit of extra track so you can make it to the next town. Then, you go to all the trouble of laying the track well and find out at the end of the process that you're just short of where you need to be by 20 track units or whatever. So, you sit around doing nothing for another year, and try to find something to spend ridiculous amounts of money on just so you have something to do. This is a/ stupid and b/ boring.

Seems to me that the way to do it would be to tie track allowance to company profit, or alternatively to freight and express revenue (if that's possible). Current thought is that 50 track per $1 million profit would work well. Also, given the silly piles of cash this map generates, having the track laying costs increase by somewhere around 10% per year might make sense. It would lessen the attraction of massive tunnels, while still leaving them affordable if you really wanted them.

One more change that might work well is to simulate the way the railway was done IRL. Keep the unconnected track disabled, but start the map with two pre-placed stations: one in SF and one in SLC. That could add more interest.

[undertoad]

Nice work finding the road up the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donner_Pass!

(I think this route up to Reno is the real Donner Pass, where CPR laid its rails IRL).

I thought I'd managed to find a pretty good road up there (trying to screenshot from as close to the same viewpoint as I can manage):

but I've still got a few 6-7% sections.

Getting out of Reno to Winnemucca was more difficult:

It's one of those cities with annoying terrain. There is a better-graded route through the city, but it would mess up the station placement (or even make a Large station impossible, because of the lack of flat ground). Perhaps making it a Y-terminus, and getting to Winnemucca by going round the mountain to the south (away from the camera, where you can see my line to Carson/Tonopah branching off) would give better grades - at the cost of more track, of course.

Once at Winnemucca, the (real) Humboldt River route is relatively easy:

As long as you turn North away from the river before the big bend around a sheer cliff. Laying track halfway up a cliff and getting constantly caught out by the dreaded "Invalid Position Over Water" block is no fun. There's a viaduct halfway along in the picture, which had to be built to get over one of those invisible "Over Water" sections.

(The track you can see in the distance is a branch from Winnemucca up to a ridiculously-rich valley in northern Nevada, packed with Grain farms and Cattle Ranches. With a brewery and Meatpackers in Winnemucca, the train on that route has been netting me $600,000 per trip since it started.

Actually that valley might just be far enough to be over the state line in southern Idaho. Near the wonderfully-named (thanks Google Maps) Dickshooter, ID! )

Once at Wells, a simple tunnel does the trick through the final range, and then it's flat running across the Great Salt Desert to SLC:

I agree with your comments about this map. It is insanely lucrative, as long as you buy up industry in California. The ports and barracks there have an insatiable demand. And because of this, the track allowance does feel very restrictive, leaving you with money but not much to do with until the end of the year. I think it's an interesting limitation, and historically accurate (there was no way to get materials to SF except by going right down to Mexico/Panama), but it hasn't been balanced quite right. More track allowance, along with some well-balanced avalanches and flash floods in Nevada washing your track away, would capture the challenge better.

There's another bug with an event which is written into the map but never shows up during play. That is supposed to allow you the option of buying better acceleration, but it bugs out due to the test condition being incorrect. I don't think it's really needed anyway.

Another thing is that you can't sandbox this map after getting gold, because it just doesn't allocate you any more track. It'd be good to have it allocate some large amount of track on getting a medal (something like 1,000,000) so you can keep playing if you want to.

Yes, I saw that event and wondered what it was for, as it never appears.

I think you should have unlimited track once you connect to SLC, and are waiting for the troops. After all, once you're connected, the factories back East can shove as much track as you're willing to pay for over to you along the rails.

So I made this happen, after connecting to SLC, by writing a one-off event giving myself Track Allowance + 9000. Before the Gold, of course, as I now know thanks to RulerOfRails - once the game is "over" events just don't fire, which had me tearing my hair out until RoR put me right.

Other events I wrote to spice up this scenario included bringing back the Baldwin 0-6-0s once they became unavailable. Still don't know why the designers make this loco unavailable so soon, with no good replacement. It's a fantastic little workhorse for non-urgent runs: waiting at a supply depot and then hauling 4 loads to your industry, for example. The American 4-4-0s which supposedly succeed the Baldwin - well, bleh... They just break down all the time.

So obviously I had to give myself Shays as well - where's the fun in mountain-rail building without Shays? I wish RRT3 was sophisticated enough to allow you to run Shays through (minor) rivers, with the rails laid straight on the river bed. When I saw pictures of logging railways doing this I couldn't believe it...

I ended up with no Sheep Farms or Coal mines in this run of the campaign. So I added in another event to scatter 10 of both randomly through the hardest areas of Nevada and SW Utah. I love building mountain railways, but there has to be something at the top to transport. Result, a station called Ridiculously High Sheep, with a fantastic view all the way to the mountains on the UT-CO border:

[Gumboots]

Cool. I'd forgotten about this one. A revamped version with some good tweaks would be nice to have.

[TheBonobo4]

I really like this scenario, but I agree with an earlier point that later on you're basically waiting for track; the track limit isn't high enough in my opinion. Maybe have another option to pay a higher amount for more track, like the 25 miles for $100k a year. Since at the end I was making several million a year and hauling about 30 loads of Produce (more than the required 5) per year. I recorded myself doing it on Hard with Gold here.

Although I still enjoyed it. And also I'd like to see a future scenario (if anyone's willing to make one) where it's the same or similar time period but you must build the Union Pacific from Nebraska to Promontory. I'm not sure how easy a route it'd be or if it'd work in RT3, but I'm surprised there isn't one already.

[RulerofRails]

DTL98 made a map for the Union Pacific, but it's still a beta. You need the 1.06 patch to run it.

I also included a link to a scenario for Transcontinental, where one must build the entire route, from both ends simultaneously. This map works with the normal 1.05 game.

Union Pacific (Easy map, 1.06, still a BETA)
viewtopic.php?f=87&t=3898#p40052

Transcontinental forum thread (find the map itself in the archives)
viewtopic.php?f=86&t=389&hilit=transcontinental

[TheBonobo4]

I'll investigate the Transcontinental one. Looks interesting. I note it's the same map used as the "Great Northern" scenario. I do remember that scenario being very difficult, and so hopefully this one is a bit easier.

But for now I have enough to do with the in-built scenarios and the Campaign.

[RulerofRails]

I wouldn't call Transcontinental an easy scenario. Generally, the custom scenarios are more difficult than the ones that came with the game.

Most custom scenarios have far better events than the default scenarios. I would recommend playing the custom ones, but choose one or two levels lower difficulty. Increasing when you don't feel the challenge anymore. I recommend Oilcan's scenarios as nice games. He also tries to accomodate the skills of the more average players.

[sleepy]

I was playing this map today, my third scenario, and I'm delighted to have found a mountain pass without the track grade exceeding 8 (seems like I was beaten, but I'd say pretty good for my very first try).

Even better, the map designers have made the area faithful to real world geography and it seems I have rediscovered the Yuba Pass, which California State Route 49 follows. After looking at Google Maps carefully, I'm convinced this is not the famous Donner Pass, which does not turn south.

I'm also excited at the amount of money the trains crossing the pass are hauling. This must be the premium paid for connecting separated areas. I've never seen a train haul this much (though as a beginner I've only played four maps so far)

[Gumboots]

Yup, areas that haven't previously been connected often build up large price differentials for some cargoes. These will taper off as you keep supplying the demand, but then you just expand to new areas again.

Nice tracklaying too. That's the same way I go up that range, although I snake the track a bit up the steepest section to keep the maximum grade to 6%, for only three track units (pix here and here). Probably doesn't make any real difference though.