Express D'Orient

[belbincolne]

Done most of those things. Finally got a good seeding which allowed me to make money and completed every objective (only on Normal though) bar speed so no medal! Mainly my fault because I kept forgetting to make trains goods only, the worst being the return trips from hauling coffee and weapons which must have been very, very slow. One thing I rarely do is build a Paper Mill instead of Lumber. Did this later in the game and it was fairly succesful but the big earner was a Tool and Die over the river from Belgrade. Seeding was none too good for logging. What is very different in this scenario compared to thers is the speed at which trains used AI lines. On some scenarios a train could fail to move on them for several years. Anyway enjoyable enough to give it more tries.

[Gumboots]

If you keep forgetting to make trains freight-only or express-only, there are probably a lot of other options you're missing too.

I'll often build a paper mill first, then a lumber mill. Both use the same source industry and both are usually profitable, especially once you bring furniture and weapons onto the equation. Obviously I buy the logging camps too, as soon as they start making a profit. Starting with a paper mill has the advantage that at Zagreb logs are often already worth something because there will be a lumber mill up the river in Bosnia. Pulpwood is usually worth nothing, so materials costs and therefore profit margins are in favour of paper intially. Also, a paper mill doesn't require a bond in the first year, which helps your credit rating in subsequent years.

[EPH]

I agree that you can generate a lot of money quickly and easily with early industrial development; Austria (lumber, paper, distilleries, breweries, dairy processors, steel, tool and die shops) and Romania (all of the above plus textiles, munitions, weapons, autos, tires and of course a refinery) are particularly rich, but some industry is available just about anywhere (Ottoman textiles, distilleries, breweries and an occasional meat-packing plant can do well). A good early rail-only start is Vienna-Bratislava-Graz and then on to Budapest, but I usually get 3-4 industries running before I set up a railroad - that's just my style of play.

I don't agree when you say don't use a Stirling on the Vienna-Budapest run. There is an easy gradient from Vienna to Graz and on to Budapest that barely breaks 2% grade. With high priority set for express traffic, a Stirling pulling 4 cars will work well on that. Of course it works best on flat land and in short hops - so that's what I use it for. For extra profit (and mail delivery) I usually set up two express trains on the Vienna-Bratislava-Graz-Budapest run and later in the game two directly to Vienna-Budapest. Still, any system that delivers success for the speed requirement should be fine... I just know that anything that stops a Consolidation will stop it for a long time because the Connies are slooooowwwww to accelerate. .

I think the best approach to the speed requirement is to try to get 5-7 years of success early on and then don't worry about it until you get the faster engines after 1900. Electrification (1904? 1905?) is the answer to every prayer since you can run at high speed over most grades and probably not have to worry about separating passenger trains from freight. My tips for steam engines are to separate out the freight and express trains (I don't worry with spur maintenance tracks myself), double-track your high-use stations (Vienna, Budapest, Bucharest plus places like Szeged that I turn into industrial complexes) and double-track your service centers if they are on the main rail line. I quite agree that you need to keep your express engines young, but 6-8 years usually works for me (darned Stirlings crash a lot anyway). I agree that it can work out well to concentrate on freight haulage for the first year or two that your railroad is open, but the big cities like Vienna, Budapest and Bucharest should generate enough passengers to make at least one express train profitable.

This scenario is one that blooms in the middle to late game, not early on. Take slow steps and be patient, working on building up things that bring in revenue. If you haven't moved outside your starting country by 1900 but have a healthy cash flow and a good start on the speed requirement, then you should still be OK. Play for the long haul because the game isn't over until 1914. One long-term hurdle is making sure you get the mail deliveries to Budapest and Bucharest. Usually one is easy and the other hard... Run trains direct from Vienna, Budapest and/or Istanbul if you have trouble getting enough mail to move.

Be prepared to leverage your early successes with industry and rail into high levels of debt! You don't have stock to worry about, so kill the dividend and borrow, borrow, borrow to grow, grow, grow! In my current game I am industrializing and developing Austria-Hungary; in 1900 I have more than $6 million in revenue and $2 in profits with about $8 million in debt. I'm now ready to begin paying down a bond per year (unless I get a better interest rate - then they all get re-negotiated) while investing the rest in access rights, more and bigger industries and of course new track, stations and locomotives. I probably have a dozen industries (lumber and paper in Zagreb, furniture, toys and a dairy processor north of there; in Szeged a distillery, lumber mill, paper mill, furniture and toys, plus weapons, munitions and a tool and die shop; in Budapest a brewery and a steel mill) so I'm not worried about filling my freight trains . But that's just my style of play - I love industries and I run lots of trains over my track.

Romania, Romania, Romania... such a great mix of industrial resources! I love starting there, but sometimes I get so wrapped up in industrializing I get short on time to build the rest of the rail net!

Thank you both for your comments...

[belbincolne]

I'm still a bit puzzled about the industry start. After 2 years you get played hell with for not carrying passenger traffic and your interest rate rockets as well as a bit ($100k?) of a fine. Maybe you can carry all this? My memory is that this wasn't part of the original.

I tried again both on Expert first and then normal again and both times the seeding was very poor so have got fed up for a while and gone back to Bridges to Lewiston for now but will be back. There was no logs anywhere near any town and only isolated ones on any river.

I have had what I thought were great seedings in the Ottoman Empire with an Industry (Meat Packer I think) just moving into huge profit but still cheap. After a couple of years it went flat and the route between its town and Casablanca was a real loss maker.

One other question. What consist do you run passenger trains on. I've been using either 1 - 4max but last effort 1 - 3. If I make it 0 - 3 or 4 will it count when its running (obviously faster) on 0?

[Gumboots]

I don't agree when you say don't use a Stirling on the Vienna-Budapest run. There is an easy gradient from Vienna to Graz and on to Budapest that barely breaks 2% grade. With high priority set for express traffic, a Stirling pulling 4 cars will work well on that.

This is going to come down to personal preference, but IMO 2% kills a Stirling and 4 cars is not enough. I'd rather run a Consolidation hauling 6 cars mixed consist, than a Stirling hauling 4 cars express only. It's more profitable, and on Expert level the railway profits are bad enough as it is.

I just know that anything that stops a Consolidation will stop it for a long time because the Connies are slooooowwwww to accelerate. .

Which is why I don't stop them. If running Vienna > Budapest direct, with maintenance spurs, a Consolidation hauling 6 car mixed consist will sustain station to station speeds well in excess of 30 mph.

I think the best approach to the speed requirement is to try to get 5-7 years of success early on and then don't worry about it until you get the faster engines after 1900. Electrification (1904? 1905?) is the answer to every prayer since you can run at high speed over most grades and probably not have to worry about separating passenger trains from freight. My tips for steam engines are to separate out the freight and express trains (I don't worry with spur maintenance tracks myself), double-track your high-use stations (Vienna, Budapest, Bucharest plus places like Szeged that I turn into industrial complexes) and double-track your service centers if they are on the main rail line. I quite agree that you need to keep your express engines young, but 6-8 years usually works for me (darned Stirlings crash a lot anyway). I agree that it can work out well to concentrate on freight haulage for the first year or two that your railroad is open, but the big cities like Vienna, Budapest and Bucharest should generate enough passengers to make at least one express train profitable.

I always get the speed average straight through in one hit, once I start running trains. Then again, this does rely on spurs, but honestly I cannot stand NOT using spurs. I hate watching trains stop in the middle of a run when they don't have to.

I never use electrification, just because I don't like electric trains (I call them "flying suppositories"). This is just personal preference of course, so if someone does want to electrify I agree it will give them an advantage.

I don't usually run express-only trains either. This is purely because of profit margins. If there is a highly profitable freight waiting, I'd rather the priority train hauled that. If express is commanding the best prices, it can haul express. Either way, it will keep its speed up because of the priority setting, so it's all good.

Darned Stirlings do not crash a lot, if they are well maintained and if they are replaced before they become unreliable. If they are relying on inline maintenance sheds that will only be used once the oil level is well below 50%, and if you keep them until they are 8 years old, then yes they probably will crash a lot. I know the game intructions do not mention this, but running any train with less than 50% oil is really bad for reliability. After a lot of testing, keeping checks on the reliability bar and the number of breakdowns and crashes, I'm totally convinced of this. Basically, the more oil they have in them, the better they last. This is another argument in favour of scheduled maintenance stops (IMHO).

The reason for not hauling express very early on is not to do with profitability. It's to do with speed averages. If I have one express train and it breaks down, the speed average for that year goes through the floor. If I have three express trains and one breaks down, the speed average for that year is still pretty good. So, I often wont run express until I have several routes available, just as an insurance policy against breakdowns.

One long-term hurdle is making sure you get the mail deliveries to Budapest and Bucharest. Usually one is easy and the other hard...

Funnily enough I have never had a problem with this. Both have always been easy. I always run post offices, so maybe this is the reason. I have noticed that I generally carry a lot more mail, in any scenario, when I use post offices.

Be prepared to leverage your early successes with industry and rail into high levels of debt! You don't have stock to worry about, so kill the dividend and borrow, borrow, borrow to grow, grow, grow! In my current game I am industrializing and developing Austria-Hungary; in 1900 I have more than $6 million in revenue and $2 in profits with about $8 million in debt.

If you have $6 million in revenue, your profits on Expert level should be around $3 million. Profits sitting around 50% of revenue is my standard ballpark figure for Expert level. If it was down to less than 35%, unless the economy was in a sustained depression, I'd be looking at where I could gain efficiency. Also, by 1900 I'd usually have $10 million in debt.

I don't know if you saw my rant about bonds, but the important bit is this:

...as long as you are playing the game the right way, holding $10 million of debt in bonds will increase your company profits by $1 million per year.

That might be a surprise to some people, but it's true.

Since I can usually use the capital to make more than the interest rate, I go for maximum bonds asap and often hold the full $10 million to the end of the game. Then I just keep refinancing down to the lowest possible interest rate. The only exception would be a situation where I know the economy is going to improve, and I am holding a pile of bonds at a less than optimal interest rate (like 8%) and I have to wait out the next year or so while I save up for a major purchase. In that situation paying back bonds now makes sense, because I wont be using the capital for anything else, and I'll be able to borrow it back again in a year or so at a better interest rate.

[Gumboots]

I'm still a bit puzzled about the industry start. After 2 years you get played hell with for not carrying passenger traffic and your interest rate rockets as well as a bit ($100k?) of a fine. Maybe you can carry all this? My memory is that this wasn't part of the original.

It's not part of the original, and it's difficult to avoid even if using a rail start. It's impossible to avoid if using an industry start. You just have to wear it for a couple of years. If you can get a good base set up, you will be able to handle the penalty without it being a game killer.

I tried again both on Expert first and then normal again and both times the seeding was very poor so have got fed up for a while and gone back to Bridges to Lewiston for now but will be back. There was no logs anywhere near any town and only isolated ones on any river.

I'd be interested to take a look at one the the seedings that is giving you trouble. Do you still have any saves from the very start of one of those games, before you did anything? If not, you could save the game start next time you have a go at it, and perhaps also do another save a few years down the track. By looking at those, I may be able to give you some better tips.

I have had what I thought were great seedings in the Ottoman Empire with an Industry (Meat Packer I think) just moving into huge profit but still cheap. After a couple of years it went flat and the route between its town and Casablanca was a real loss maker.

You have to be careful with meat packing plants. They tend to over-saturate the local market very easily, unless you have a major city or a way of hauling the meat to another area. If their market is limited to a small area they will often make good money for a couple of years before going flat.

On the other hand, it can make them a very good purchase when you are bringing your railway to a new area. A limping meat packing plant can suddenly start making good money once you give it access to more customers.

One other question. What consist do you run passenger trains on. I've been using either 1 - 4max but last effort 1 - 3. If I make it 0 - 3 or 4 will it count when its running (obviously faster) on 0?

Empty trains don't count towards your speed average. It only counts actual loads hauled. I usually run either 0-6 on flat country with multiple stops or short routes, or 1-6 on long routes that have only two stops, or either 0-5 or 1-5 if the terrain isn't so good. All trains get a caboose too.

This is the same way I run freight trains. I've found that running 6 max freight is noticeably more reliable than running 7 cars max.

[RayofSunshine]

Well I have mostly enjoyed most of your (EPH) scenarios, but believe that I ran into the same problem as Bel. Not and adequate amount of revenue. Hence since then, I have been indulging into RT2, and aso some of the newer RT3 creations. From all the comments, I guess I will attempt another to see if those suggestions will help.

[EPH]

With this one, where you start has a big impact on difficulty. I recommend either Austria-Hungary or Romania, though starting as the Ottomans isn't too tough.

Romania: there should be logging camps in the northwest part of the country along with plenty of grain and produce. Get an industry or three up and running (lumber and liquor are profitable) then connect your industrial towns to Bucharest. As money comes available, extend the line east, eventually to Constantia. Develop your industrial base while running trains over these short (and profitable) routes. I recommend running freight-only and express-only trains. Once you have a massive industrial empire you can buy access to Austria and south to Istanbul. Romania will support textiles, lumber, furniture, toys, paper, beer, liquor, steel, tool-and-die, weapons, ammunition and automobiles - and by 1900-1905 you should be rolling in money.

Austria: it's hard to beat the money you can make by putting a lumber mill and paper mill in Zagreb, but Szeged is (usually) a great site for a distillery, brewery and anything that needs steel (from Belgrade - you can put a station on the north side of the river and pull out the steel). Like Romania, once you have two or three industries running build a short line from Vienna to Bratislava and Gyor. Extend this to Budapest at your first opportunity - or run a line to Zagreb to pull out the limber and paper. Express trains can make the speed limit on the Vienna-Bratislava-Gyor-Budapest run and freight trains will be profitable. Because you are building longer lines, I think it takes longer to build up a massive cash flow in Austria but once the flood starts you can go pretty much all the way to Istanbul in five years or so.

I hope this helps... I usually have at least a short railroad line running before the time the penalties arrive, and with a little care I can have 10-12 years of the speed limit taken care of before 1904.

Please let me know if you need any advice or help.

[Jeremy Mac Donald]

Just finished playing this and had a good time. Managed to just barely get Gold about two months before the scenario would end...though that was because I had not realized I needed to haul mail to Bucharest. I had spent a few years wondering why I had not already won when I made the connection at the start of 1913. Only way to make the run was over the AI's track. I pretty much put a train in every city that could possibly reach Bucharest in a Year and told it to haul mail to Bucharest.

I note that besides these mail hauling conditions you don't actually have to haul express cargo. I did anyway mainly on trains with a mere 2 cars (for very high speed) and at one point I built some extreme tunnels and just went straight through the tougher mountain ranges. Definitely a scenario that rewards starting with Industry. I did nothing else for the first 8 years of the scenario and from that point on was swimming in money. Never did have any event involving the Kaiser...maybe because I had already bought access to Bulgaria, Romania and OE by 1900?

I did like how this scenario got me using express trains and cargo trains. For me the cargo trains had 6 cars and low priority and yet they made all the money...certainly those 2 car express trains never made much. I'd think if this idea where to be repeated there would need to be some kind of total mail and passengers requirement added. Otherwise it just makes sense to do what is necessary to meet the mail haul requirements and have 1 express train on some nice flat route hauling 1 car of mail or passengers around so as to meet the high speed express requirement.

[EPH]

A requirement to haul passengers to and from Vienna and Istanbul wouldn't be unreasonable. I chose to include the coffee and weapons hauls to accomplish that instead; it requires the players to not only make but use the connection and gives you something else to do. The real test of the passenger service is maintaining a reasonable express speed over your route, which was a real concern for the original Orient Express. Admittedly you can do that with one train a year for 15 years, but there are ways to sidestep most requirements. I always set up a full passenger-service series (more fun and much more profitable - passengers pay!) and I have no trouble making the express speed requirement for at least the first 10 years. Then you have to wait for electrics or the Italian cab-forward job...

Glad you enjoyed it, and yes - this one definitely rewards industrial development. But hey - you gotta have something to put on all those freight trains, right? Austria and Romania can be industrialized to a very high degree and the money you make is very helpful. I added the 'Kaiser' event both as a historical 'tip of the hat' and to give players a late lifeline if they needed one.

I usually make 4-car express trains and 8-car freights, but like you I find myself pressed for money in the early and middle game but swimming in it the last few years. Try starting in one of the other countries... this one has (I think) reasonable replay value. You might also try 'Japanese Miracle' for something in a similar play-style.

[bmheron]

I just started playing this one but am running into system issues. RTIII crashes at the same point over and over. I havent gone through this entire thread yet so if anyone has some tips let me know. I'm on 1.05 and havent had this problem with any other scenario yet.

[Gumboots]

At which point does it crash?

[bmheron]

various points. what i wind up doing is restarting from the last checkpoint, taking various saves as it gets closer to the crash point, and then only way I seem to get past it is to change something, like add a new section of track or building. so far its happened at 3 different points in the game, the last two I got past with that technique. but just happened again. all of them have been in the upper part of the map near constantine and istanbul (if I even have the names right ).

[Blackhawk]

Do you see anything that seems to be occurring repeatedly each time it crashes? Ex. Is there a certain train that is arriving at a station each time a crash happens?

I remember there was another scenario, possibly made by EPH but I can't remember, for several people it crashed when something happened near a certain city/connection. Although reading through this thread, no one else seems to mention this scenario crashing for them so I'm unsure what to say in this case.

[bmheron]

hi, the very first time it crashed it crashed at the same point. i'd setup a section of track between like constantine and the same other station. it would crash when id run the first train from it, and at the same spot. these other two times I cant find a pattern. was wondering if this is a quirk of RTIII and was there a typical way around it. sounds like its not (which is a good thing!). I'll keep messing with it. thanks!

[Hawk]

Just a couple of basic questions.

What version of RT3 are you playing in?

Do you have any custom locos or any mods installed?

[bmheron]

im on 1.05 and no, nothing custom installed as far as i know.

[Blackhawk]

Feel free to upload a zip of your saved game for this and I can try taking a look at it and see if it freezes for me or not.

The map I was referring to in my previous post, which may be a similar glitch to what you are facing can be read about here: http://www.hawkdawg.com/forums/viewtopi ... =30#p26389

[bmheron]

cool. i had no idea i could just send a copy of my saved game for someone else to try! yet another amazing facet of this beauty of a game. Ok,I actually chose my Autosave since it was a few mins newer than the lastest save for this game. And I'll check out the thread you have below. thanks!

[Blackhawk]

I think it has something to do with Constanta or the area around it. I loaded up your saved game and it crashed towards the end of January. But if I bulldozed your track that connected to the AI track thereby cutting your connection to Constanta, the game didn't crash. I'll look into it more and see if I can discover anything else.