Durango & Silverton 1.0 - a google-made map

[soccersetter643]

Hey, for those of you following my post about using google maps as a texture overlay in conjunction with MicroDEM, here is the first draft of my very first custom-made scenario, called Durango. It's about the creation of the Durango & Silverton scenic railway in Colorado. Only requirement is the most basic version of RT3. Give it a download and be sure to rate/give suggestions on how to improve it! Thanks!

[RayofSunshine]

First off, I usually play scenarios in the Expert level. I don't usually succeed, and then go to the norm of the Medium level. And, I did not do that well in the Expert, believeing that I would not be able to get to Silverton, at least by 1895, but do believe that the speed and passenger goals would be met for Silver. I will see what my results with the Medium level operation.

But that isn't my problem. Although I attempt to play mountainous terrain scenarios, I don't really enjoy them. This map is of a probably in "reality", however, I have had to borrow 3 bonds, to get adequate amount of revenue for all the bridges which the operations seem to require. And in reality, instead of bridges "over the water", "cuttings" were made into the mountain sides. If this was a "user map", the creator would attain level areas along the river, so as to operate with a minimal number, and length of constructed bridges.

Now I have watched videos of the Durango & Silverton Rwy, navigating along the Aminas River, as well as all the "cut-aways" of mountains. There are some support structures along these higher elevations. But, unless we/players can construct "tunnels", we are at the mercy of some very exaggerated inclines. (Although I realize that in reality, these are considerable steep slopes.)

When a "speed" challenge is required, I will use spurs for the maintanence. This can be easily done on short hauls. But if a player is to traverse the length, such player will have to use these off-spurs, which kills the speed challenge, and would find it more advantageous to just place such maintanence along the route. However, these will cut the "speed" of that same short haul agenda.

Some real challenges with this scenario, but I like the concept of the challenges.

[soccersetter643]

So if I were to go back and look at the route more carefully in real life, and try to adjust the terrain to reflect the various inclines and tunnels that the REAL Durango & Silverton had, do you think it would make the scenario better or worse?

[Hawk]

I'm just curious if you have successfully got Gold on this map.
I tried it on Medium level and got nowhere. I just couldn't make enough money to build anything.
I'm playing in V-1.05.

I did notice in the Editor, under General Validation, that there is a long list of industries that couldn't be built.

Click on image to view full size.

[soccersetter643]

I did limit the resources, in an attempt to keep the available resources more realistic with the actual region. I managed to get silver on medium, but I haven't managed Gold yet. It might require softening the gold requirements a bit to make the scenario more balanced. The way I started was by immediately connecting to the first city and building a consolidation, which generates a good deal of profit. But any tips would be helpful :) thanks!

[Hawk]

I wasn't talking about limiting resources. I was referring to the fact that a lot of farms and such can't be built due to the terrain, as is mentioned in the screenshot I posted.

I started the same way as you, and several other ways, and never could get anywhere.

[soccersetter643]

ah, I see! I was wondering what those things meant... i'll try playing around with the terrain heights

[RayofSunshine]

Will take advantage of your short name, as Soccer, and hope without offense to you.

I believe that Silver is within reach in the Medium, although I had to buy 3 bonds in the Expert to try and reach that goal.

I likewise laid track to the 1st city, but not until I had laid track to to obtain "grain" to the location of a "sheep ranch". At the 1st advantage, I purchased the Textil Mill at Durango, for extra revenue. My plan was to furnish "grain" to the 'sheep ranch', but later realized that the supply should have been "corn".

some consideration would be helpful to have some "level" areas in the upper slopes. That would be more consistant to reality, as Silverton is considerable at a higher elevation than that of Durango. I did find a problem with try to place a depot at "Temple Depot" (not sure of city name, except that of Depot). The buildings are located in such a way, that the only location which I found, had approaches of 60+ degrees. Thereafter, I do believe, that reality, that more track would be at higher levels.

I sort of retract my suggestion of more levels at the level of Aminas (? on spelling). I believe that there is adequate amount of such levels to the Temple Depot, and thereafter the track would be a constant incline to Silvertone.

Now I don't know how much "trouble" would be required, but I believe that some scenarios I have played, that the user creator (believe it was EPH, but not positive at this point) would lay a "path", of which track would have to be laid in say a "designated" path. That would require the play to a restriction, and this manner, the expense to lay the track would be governed by the "designated incline".

Having played the scenario in the Expert level, it will really take a "Tycoon" to get the Gold. That 1000 pass is really a stiff requirement. Don't even know about the possibility of that in the Hard as well as Medium levels.

Am anxious to see what your next changes will curtail. Enjoyed the concept to this point, and will attempt a play in the Medium, to see what difference between that of Expert and Medium,

[OilCan]

I pushed up the valley for 10 years and only got as far as Needleton - and that was only because I maxed out my bonds to see how far I could get in the last few months of the 9th year.

Started off the game by investing in a textile mill and a sheep farm, then began to build to Hermosa, reaching it in May '81. Reached Rockwood in July '83. Paused to buy into the lumber & paper industry, then a meat processing plant. By '85 the money was starting to accumulate so started up the valley again. Did not go up the river valley, but built the main line towards the lakes and built spurs to the Tall Timbers & Tacoma.

Recession was setting in and the money was drying up. I maxed out my bonds and made a final push to see how far I could get. Last part of my track was rough and jerky.

Here's my 10 years stats: 53 passenger loads, 20 mph average speed, 1277 miles of track.

Couple of suggestions (well, maybe more than a couple):
1. Put a warehouse at Durango which supplies coffee, sugar and rice, 2 loads per year each. This will help keep money rolling in.
2. Give a reward of $250,000 or so for connecting to each town.
3. The ledger does not tell the progress towards gold, silver or bronze.
4. There is no way to haul 1000 passengers in 10 years. 100 might be more possible, maybe.
5. There is no way to have a lifetime express speed of 30 mph. 20 might be more possible.
6. Reduce the cost of tunnels somewhat
7. Give the player 20 years to reach Silverton for Gold.

The terrain color is great! But dark. It is hard to see the undulations of the valley. Not sure if anything can be done.

In the 1880s, there were no National Forests. There were forest reserves, but it was not until 1905 when Uncle Teddy Roosevelt started the US Forest Service and with it what we now call the San Juan National Forest. (Sorry, I'm an old forester.)

Overall enjoyed the part of the game I played. Great scenery.

[RayofSunshine]

Well Soccer,
I am in the Medium play level, and now noticed that my suggestion of "designated" paths for track may not work. I now see that all of the cities are along the river of which is not really in reality. Now I could be wrong on the locations of cities, as the documentary/video I watched, only showed the trains at the depots, and very little surrounding terrain.

Now I not only have a booklet on the D&S, but also have a friend who had just taking the D&S train tour. I will ask him as to some of the features which he saw.

My play is different in the Medium, as there isn't a Textil Mill at Durango, and is now at Hermosa. Lots of supply farms along the way, but am having a problem getting any loads out of Durango. Hence I will have to get track laid, or create a depot at a Cattle Ranch, in order to get revenue fromt he Meal Packer at Durango.

And that city of which I did not recall the name, is Tacoma Depot, at which point I found a problem to get some what of a good location to build a station.

OH, and yes, I have already bought a bond, in order to have adequate revenue for the track to Hermosa.

[RayofSunshine]

Okay All,
I checked with my friend about the location of the cities, and I was incorrect in my comment. All the cities are near the river. what I had seen, and what my friend indicated, was that there are a number of "stop" locations in the higher elevations, but that they were of old "water, etc" stops, and places where persons could embark for hiking trails.
SO, that being cleared, he did not mention an tunnels of which OilCan suggested. They would be different that the "designated paths" which I had mentioned. And I believe the 1st I had ever ran into such, was in Kootenay.

[Gumboots]

I did limit the resources, in an attempt to keep the available resources more realistic with the actual region. I managed to get silver on medium, but I haven't managed Gold yet. It might require softening the gold requirements a bit to make the scenario more balanced. The way I started was by immediately connecting to the first city and building a consolidation, which generates a good deal of profit. But any tips would be helpful :) thanks!

Basic rule of thumb is that before releasing a map, you should have managed Gold on Expert setting yourself.

[soccersetter643]

Gosh, thank you everyone for the amazing feedback! I feel very lucky that there is such a vibrant, passionate railroading community out there who still keeps this game alive! Not all games are so lucky.

Oil Can - Great suggestions! I will be sure to make those changes regarding the rewards for town connections, which should make it easier. I believe that the most recent version also has boosts to passenger creation and passenger revenue for connecting to some of the towns (no spoilers here, you'll have to find them on your own), and I thought the ledger did work, although it may just be that I haven't posted the most recent version. And thank you very much for your comment about the forests! That will definitely change the logging camp distribution on the map. As for the 10 year requirement, I made it that short because the original D&R rail line was only built in one year, and so I was trying to keep the scenario accurate.

Ray - That document you have on the Durango & Silverton - any chance you could scan it and post it on here so I can reference it? I'd love to get some more historical references into this. As for the 1000 passenger load requirement, I think that will go away, or at least go down to 100. The speed condition will be reduced as well.

Unfortunately, I'm right at the end of the quarter and finals are coming up, so I won't be able to make a lot of heavy changes right now. Hopefully I can have them done soon, though.

By the way, does anyone have any interest in attempting to create the custom engines and rolling stock used on the D&S?



*EDIT* OK, I've made some edits, and they are by no means done, but here is the newest file. I made it to Silverton on expert by 1889, but got Silver because of an error in my scripting (I didn't have all the passenger loads done, but I still should have had some time to get the bonus). Theres still a lot of things that need to be fixed, but I believe the scenario should be much more reasonable now.

[RayofSunshine]

Well Soccor,
The goals were considerably more realistic, and I did manage to get a Silver. I was short of 35 pass for Gold. However, it did require $6M in bonds to get such an accomplishment. Just too many tunnels had to be built. But it is an interesting scenario and believe most players will enjoy it. Now if I liked it, most others will as well, as I don't like mountainous scenarios, and believe me, the percentage of mountains far excide that of level terrain. LOL

[Wolverine@MSU]

Very nice map. I like the painting from google maps. As Ray says, the terrain is very "unusual", but I only needed one tunnel. It was quite a challenge to keep far enough away from the rivers in the narrow vallies, and with track hugging the mountainsides, it made for a really cool "ride" from Silverto south. I got Gold on Expert in the final year. Started out with a Lumber Mill the first year (smack dab in the middle of one cluster of Logging Camps), added another the next year (in the other cluster of Camps), and then a Brewery right in a cluster of Grain Farms. Excellent profits for the first three years, and they gave a good base for building rails the fourth year. Since PNW or CBV aren't goals, it's important to issue stock at every chance (I do it first thing in January), and keep your stock prices high by boosting dividends in December, then cutting to 0 in January so all money goes to the Company. It only took a couple of hours to complete, unlike some scenarios where it takes me several days.

On another topic, I've been working on my own version of Orient Express, with modified "helpers" at the start, and a requirement to actually haul passengers (1000 for Gold) with a minimum express speed (30 mph). I've also included the option for up to 5 AIs to make the game more challenging (or easy if you exploit them). If anyone's interested, I'ld be glad to post it. The rest of the game is pretty much as the original, including the monk's bonus, but added a requirement to haul 20 loads of tourists from Vienna to Istanbul once the connection is complete.

[Gumboots]

Funny you should mention that. I've been playing with Express D'Orient and thinking about ways it could be extended for greater variety of gameplay.

[Gumboots]

Just tried this one. It's ok for a quick game, but IMO there's no replay value in it because it is so limited. This is obviously personal preference, but is something you might want to think about. Making a good map is a lot of work, so do you want to put all that work into a scenario that most people will play once and then ignore?

Problems: the game gave me Silver as soon as I connected to Silverton, even though it was only 1888. Suggest checking the event scripting there.

Also, although the scenery looks good overall, there are some very odd bits with the rivers when you get in close. Broken flow in parts, and rivers running uphill in other parts. The broken flow is very easy to fix (just make the corners less sharp, it will still give the right feel). The uphill bits are not so easy (the height alteration tool in the editor is a nasty thing to work with).

Another thing is that I'd lose the pop-ups at the start about fuel costs, etc. What you've done is make a few necessary tweaks to the locomotive modelling to compensate for the fact that your map scale (miles/pixel) is outside the recommended limits for the game. This is good IMO, because the larger scale gives a more realistic feel to the geography, and also means when a train is travelling a good distance it actually feels like it. As you found out, you have to alter the fuel, sand, water and oil usage to get it to work well. My 2c: just do it and don't bother making announcements about it.

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To win this one, you just plonk paper mills and sawmills in the two big blobs of logging camps, run a line down from "Hermosa Junction" (what the game will call a station at the southern blob of logging camps) to Durango with two freight-only trains. Then, as soon as the steel mill up at Silverton starts producing steel, drop a tool and die there. All of these industries can be upgraded as production allows. There are no other industries on the map worth bothering with (that includes hotels, etc).

So apart from those tricks to get your basic income happening, you just grab bonds and issue stock as fast as you can, and run a line to Silverton as quickly as possible. Have high priority express trains plus standard freight-only trains on all runs. As money allows, double track the lines, starting at Durango, and double the express trains once the lines are doubled. If you do this, you should get Gold on Expert level with an express speed of over 40mph, using all Consolidations with 6 cars plus caboose on all trains.

If you're running out of time and want some more cash for extra double track, just sell some of your industries. You can ditch all of them if you like. It wont matter, because after that point the income is irrelevant as there's nothing to spend it on.

[soccersetter643]

Does anyone mind taking a look at the win scripting? I'm still pretty new to this, and am not sure where I went wrong, but the game gives you silver once you connect to silverton, even if it's before the gold date.

[Gumboots]

You used a <= on the silver condition. Use >= instead, so it doesn't trigger before the scenario time limit is up.

[Stoker]

Excellent map Soccersetter. The extraction of the map texture from GM worked very well. I personally like the challenge of difficult terrain maps , although there are plenty who don't. I am very familiar with this area, having lived on the other side of the hill from Silverton , in Telluride, for several years. I have rode the scenic train a few times and it is without a doubt the coolest scenery you are likely to see on any railroad anywhere. the Cumbres and Toltec Scenic Railroad, which was the section of D&RG line east of Durango from Chama NM to Antonito CO, is probably a close second and I am familiar with that area too, although I have not had the pleasure of riding those rails. The Georgetown Loop has some awesome scenery as well, although much of it straddles I-70 and takes away from the experience quite a bit IMO. I am a railfan and history buff and have made a map of this area too, although my map encompasses the area from Albuquerque all the way to Cheyenne and west all the way to the Utah border. Seeing your fine work on this map is motivating me to get that scenario polished up and usable, I may just do that. You can find a really old version of "Mile High and Rising at my thread here, and keep in mind that it is a 1.06 version map (gotta have that Ore cargo for a map in this area )

Being very familiar with the history of the D&RG (later D&RGW) and Colorado in general I must point out an historical faux pas that I see. This railroad was actually part of the Denver & Rio Grande Railroad and you correctly have the time frame of it's construction being from 1880-1882. The Durango & Silverton Scenic Railway did not come into existence until 1981 when the then D&RGW sold (basically donated) the line from Durango to Silverton , along with several locomotives and some rolling stock and line maintenance gear, to a company formed to operate it as a scenic railway. Another minor point is that there was actually a steel mill in Durango, or more accurately an iron foundry, which was south of the river in the area where the vanadium and silver smelters were, but there was never anything other than a smallish silver/gold smelter up the hill in Silverton.

That detail is easy to overlook in light of the superb detailing you have accomplished with your new method of creating maps, my hat is off to you sir!
Thank you for creating this map for RT3, the game that refuses to die.