Latvia (beta)

Discussion about reviews and strategies for user created scenarios made for RT3 version 1.05 and earlier.
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RulerofRails
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Re: Latvia (beta) Unread post

Gumboots, I agree with the logic behind increasing acceleration, however, I would remind you that what I found during testing led me to conclude that this adjustment via event is broken the same way that fuel cost is: viewtopic.php?p=40457#p40457. I imagine that the increase in speed while not giving realistic numbers is to compensate for a map size that covers a very small area. Then the idea is palatable.

Thanks for running the map. :salute: Good feedback for juriko to consider. I agree that haulage goals tend to become uninteresting if that is the only thing to do. I would support increasing the revenue requirements for balance with this goal.

An illustration of lower than ideal Port demand for juriko, a consumption figure will only tend to consume half of the stated because the game is hard-coded to run low production for unprofitable chains (this includes consumption chains). So with one port we are only seeing a consumption of 3 per year (6/2), whereas in the late game the player should be shipping in maybe 20+ loads per year. In the best case scenario, if the second port shows up AND if you manage to get them to both upgrade (I only managed to get one to upgrade in a game, but it was very near the end) you would have a theoretical consumption of 12 per year, which is still lower than is really needed.

Gumboots, are you saying that you never got a second port after 5-10 years of play? Seems to turn up pretty consistently for me.

Edit: Fixed a typo.
Last edited by RulerofRails on Tue Apr 25, 2017 9:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Latvia (beta) Unread post

First time I got two ports, with the second one kicking in sometime before Year 10 (can't remember exactly). Second time I only got one port, even after the full 22 years. That made a biiiigggggg difference to demand and gradients.
I would support increasing the revenue requirements for balance with this goal.
Could do that, but maybe also reduce the haulage goals. The thing is that although you can make the haulage goals as hard as you like, by just upping the required loads, that doesn't necessary make the game more interesting. What it does do is restrict your options, so that instead of playing the entire map you shut the whole thing down to a few key paths.

Edit: I still think the idea of removing demand for logs from the Swedish warehouses, and adding demand for lumber instead, would be a good thing. It would help to give a useful draw on Riga.
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Re: Latvia (beta) Unread post

I'm having a bit of a think about what could be done to add some more spice to this map.

First thing I learned is that Latvia didn't gain independence in 1918. They tried to proclaim a republic in November of that year, but Soviet Russia invaded in December. The Latvians then fought a war of independence against the Russians until January 1920, when peace negotiations began. The war of independence officially ended on August 11, 1920 when the Latvian–Soviet Peace Treaty was signed.

So really this scenario should start in 1920. Prior to that there wasn't really any Latvian republic as such, and reconstruction of the railways didn't start until peace was attained. It would be nice to have a newspaper in August to celebrate the signing of the treaty.

You could add newspapers for other noteworthy events too. The UK, France, Belgium, Italy and Japan recognised Latvia's independence on January 26, 1921* and these were followed by many other countries. Latvia was admitted to the League of Nations on September 22, 1921 (which definitely deserves a newspaper as it would have been a big deal in Latvia).

There was a trade agreement between Latvia and Estonia in 1923, and a Latvia-Poland trade treaty in February 1929. Maybe these could have events that give some cross border bonuses?

*Incidentally, January 26th is also Australia Day. (0!!0)
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Re: Latvia (beta) Unread post

Found a bug. There's a "ghost" river bed on the south side of the Daugava River west of Daugavpils. You can see it if you shift into editor mode and enable the rivers tool. It prevents you building a railway up the south side of the river, as I found out when I tried to do it. Although it's not visible during play, the game still treats it as a river.

This "ghost river" can't be removed by the normal river eraser tool, which I suppose is why Juriko left it there. However, after playing around I discovered that it can be removed if you make a new river on top of the ghost, then erase the new river. This will set it all back to normal land. !*th_up*!

So I've done that one my test map. I also fixed the broken river squares and their directions of flow.

Had another idea which I'm about to test. Since changing acceleration by event is broken (one of several RT3 bugs) it occurred to me that it could be worthwhile to have the event reduce oil and water consumption by 50%. This would not result in unrealistic speeds for the locomotives, but would greatly reduce the time they spend stopping for maintenance. So it would give the effect of faster trains without ridiculous top speeds. :-D

Edit: These seeds with hardly any logging camps turn up quite often. I've just had one with only 6 logging camps on the entire map. Obviously that's not going to be usable for a Gold on Expert level.

Also, I just discovered that the warehouses out at Ostrov and Druja share the same menu as the Swedish warehouses. That means they chew logs like crazy, and are pulling in the opposite direction to where you want logs to go: Latvian sawmills.

And since I'm testing the Swedish warehouses with a lumber demand instead, to see if I can get a more reliable draw on the Riga port, that means Ostrov and Druja now want to pull lumber back the other way.

Really, these two warehouses need a different demand menu.

Edit again: Ha! Just found another RT3 bug. Even if you change the warehouse menus, the old demands are still locked into the cargo map when you start the game! Meh. :roll: They even out after a few years though.

Anyway, another glitch: the port(s) at Riga are supposed to convert Alcohol to Rubber. This won't work, because Rubber is worth less money than Alcohol, so the port will not do the conversion because it will lose money on it. The only way of getting it to work would be to create a huge glut of Alchohol so the prices crashes, and create a huge demand for Rubber by building several Tire Factories. Then you might, maybe, get the conversion to be profitable. The problem is that if playing on Expert level you can't do this, because your focus has to be on producing on hauling Lumber and Meat. Even if not playing on Expert level, it's not the sort of thing I'd expect beginner and intermediate players to do. They are far more likely to simply not bother with Tires and Automobiles.

So because the conversion isn't profitable the ports never make any money, and that means they never upgrade, and there's not much incentive for a second port to seed, so demand at Riga stays low. This illustrates a problem with just throwing haulage goals onto an existing map: if it's not thought through in detail it won't work well a lot of the time. It might sometimes, but it will be highly dependent on the random seeding.

On the other hand, if you gave the port a profitable conversion then it would work. Examples would be Chemicals to Fertilizer, or Alcohol to Automobiles. These will make money, so the port will do them, so you have a better chance of getting upgraded and/or double ports. The main thing is to make sure that the cargo you are converting to is worth more than the cargo you are converting from. (0!!0)
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Re: Latvia (beta) Unread post

Ok, I have an idea. It works pretty well with the adjustments I made, but sometimes the price of meat in Riga will crash. I think the way around this would be to change the port menu. Ditch the Alcohol to Rubber conversion, which doesn't work anyway, and have it convert Meat to Automobiles. This conversion would be marginally profitable, so would encourage the port to upgrade, and should stop the price of Meat crashing.

To balance this I think it would also make sense to disable the Auto Plant and Tire Factory. Latvia imported cars in this period anyway. There is enough going on without Auto Plants to keep most people happy.

The Lumber price is stable enough already, since you can use Furniture Factories to chew up Lumber in Riga. This works well because it gives your trains something to haul on the way back to get more Lumber.

The other thing I noticed is that the warehouses in Sweden don't do anything. There is a high demand in Sweden, but even with the Swedish port the demand doesn't seem to transfer to Riga. No cargo ever crosses over to Sweden. I think this is because prices tend to stay high in Riga. So on that basis it would make sense to simplify the map and get rid of Sweden entirely. They only make Volvos and Abba records, so who needs them anyway? :-P

The P8's running at normal speed, but with 50% reduction in oil and water usage, seem to work really well. They just choof along at a sensible speed like they should, but the much greater range makes them far more effective. This not only speeds up hauling, but also means you can get good train rides even when using inline sheds and towers. (0!!0)
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Re: Latvia (beta) Unread post

Ok, I've tested quite a few things and, to be perfectly honest, I think the current Expert level haulage goals ruin the map.

I tried a lot of things to get them consistently workable with the majority of seedings, and it really would require substantial revision of several aspects of the map. The problems are that A/ seedings vary wildly, with a high proportion being unusable, and B/ even when you get a workable seed the haulage goals are so tight that everything else about the map gets subordinated to them, right from the very start. A/ means you waste a lot of time. B/ means the map becomes highly restricted, very artificial, and generally less fun.

I'm sure everyone would like this to be a good map, and get there without driving everyone crazy (if that hasn't already happened) so I think we should get a bit more imaginative with Expert level goals. Then it can work reliably without rebuilding everything from scratch, and open the map up for more varied and enjoyable play.

Juriko, this is your map and ultimately it's your call how it goes. I don't want to turn it into something you're not happy with. However, I have already implemented a range of changes on a test map and it seems to play well. IMHO it's interesting and a lot more fun on Expert level, and should even be more interesting for non-experts.I've also fixed the rivers so they look better and flow in the right directions, and got rid of the old "ghost" river bed near Daugvapils. (0!!0)

For what it's worth my considered suggestions are as follows:

1/ I like the technical option to reduce oil and water consumption by 40%, instead of increasing train speed by 20%. It gives more effective locomotives (much greater range, and less time spent in servicing) without unrealistic speeds.

2/ Would suggest making the other option a 40% reduction on bridge costs, instead of 20%.

3/ Since Latvian locomotives in this period were not rockets, I would restrict the options to the S3, P8 and Class 500. I would also use two events, at the start of 1925 and 1926, to make the S3 and P8 available indefinitely. They are more in keeping with the period than the Class 500, and have some other advantages as well, but the Class 500 is a reasonable option for anyone who finds themselves needing a bit more speed.

4/ Get rid of corn farms. Corn isn't grown in Latvia anyway (wrong climate) and corn farms crowd out other industries. If necessary, use an event to increase production of wool and livestock (+25% should be about right).

5/ Increase the logging camps slider to 55%, to match the livestock slider.

6/ Sweden turns out to be useless. I'm not sure why, but no cargo ever goes to Sweden. Might as well remove it.

Haulage goals

7/ The seedings need to be changed a bit. If you want haulage to a given destination to be viable, it's no good having every possible industry seeding in every possible location. It just screws things up. With the low starting cash, tight haulage deadlines, and the long distances on this map, you need to make money. Lots of it. Fast.

Beginner players just lay rails and hope they can haul stuff. Expert players don't work like that. In general: you need industry, you need to own it, and you need it to work. This map doesn't allow that. There are so many meat packing plants and lumber mills and furniture factories popping up everywhere that anything you try to run is likely to get screwed at any time. The industry sliders for the towns need a bit of re-thinking so that the map does logical and sustainable things.

8/ If Riga is going to be the main port for haulage, the port recipe needs fixing. The Rubber to Alcohol conversion does not work because it is not profitable. The demand for meat in Riga is also too low for price stability with one port. It works much better if the conversion is Meat to Automobiles. That way the port will make money and Meat wont stack up until the price crashes.

9/ To work with 8/, disable the Tire Factory and Auto Plant. These items were imported in that period anyway.

10/ Reduce the Expert haulage requirements for Meat and Lumber. I think 160-200 is about right. This will allow more fun on the rest of the map.

11/ The warehouse recipes at Druja and Ostrov should be changed. If they demand logs or lumber or meat this will kill haulage to Riga.

12/ If Riga port is changed to convert Meat to Automobiles, include a goal to haul 10 Automobiles to Daugavpils. This would make a good Bronze medal goal. Connecting to Valmiera is too easy, even for beginners. Connecting to Daugavpils in 20 years is still easy and anyone should be able to get 30-40 loads of meat to Riga, which means they should be able to get 10-20 loads of Automobiles to Daugavpils.

13/ According to this page "Latvia persisted through the Great Depression thanks to the strong background in agriculture. The country exported bacon, beet sugar, milk products and textiles to Western Europe. Latvian timber export formed 10% of the global market in the 1930’s." And according to this other page "The butter industry was one of the most progressive and until 1932 one-third of all export."

RT3 doesn't have butter, but a cheese haulage goal could be used instead of butter. A haulage goal for clothing could substitute for textiles. Having more varied haulage goals should be more fun, instead of just having very large lumber and meat goals going to one place.

I suggest having territories at Liepaja and Ventspils, to take 20 loads of Cheese and 20 loads of Clothing as Silver medal goals. This would give people a good reason to use the western end of the map, instead of just laying track for the connections.

14/ I think adding a haulage goal to Pskov for Gold is a good idea. This will give people a reason to go there. Since it may be connected late in the game, I think 10 loads of Automobiles is about right. This should be easy to do quickly if you are running out of time.
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Re: Latvia (beta) Unread post

Hi Juriko: instead of us telling you what we think needs fixing on your map, how about you tell me what you think is wrong with the one attached to this post? :-D

I hope this doesn't seem rude, but we were dumping a lot on you, and you say you can't test the Expert Gold goals yourself anyway, so I thought it might be better to just give a working example of what I think is something good.

Since I was trying out various options to get enjoyable but challenging expert level goals I ended up doing quite a bit of scripting. For me it was a good refresher course on RT3 coding. I've tried to keep it as close as possible to your original. It still has all the original events that you made.

It can probably still be improved slightly. If you want to release it for the 100th anniversary of the Latvian republic, you might want to add some more historical events. And it's probably possible to tie some of those in with game options. As an example, the signing of the alliance with Estonia could give a slight (20%) reduction in access costs.

I've attached a screenshot of a test play I took at the time limit. This is just to show what is possible in 20 years. Actual medal time was halfway through 1937.This game was easier than the usual ones as it had two upgraded ports in Riga. Often there will only be one port in Riga for the entire game, which makes things a bit more difficult.
Latvijas_Republika_B3.jpg
And yes, it says "out of 20" for the Riga meat and lumber haulage. I've fixed that typo now. ;-)

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Re: Latvia (beta) Unread post

Had a few more thoughts on this. It's potentially an excellent scenario, so might as well go for broke.

I am thinking some of the events could be tweaked. The "connect to Kolka" event never made sense, until I looked up Kolka. It has cultural and historical importance as the last Latvian refuge of the Livonian ethnic group and their language, but anyone outside the Baltic region would probably never know this. More of an explanation/story there would be good.

The Rail Baltica event (connect Tartu to Mazeiki) could also be replaced with something better. The Mazeiki connection relies on a little step in the border there, just big enough to poke a large station into. I thought it was clever of Juriko to do that. However, it effectively means the Lithuanian access cost is irrelevant since Mazeiki is the only city in that territory. If the oil refinery doesn't seed, you'll never want to go there anyway.

So maybe change the Rail Baltica event. As soon as you connect to Pjarnu, the Estonians decide they want you to sort their railways too. Say $250k bonus for connecting each of the remaining Estonian cities. Then a big bonus of $1-2 million once all six are connected, since that will require a short suspension bridge to Saarema.

This would be a nice tie-in with Kolka, since Saarema also has Livonians living there. Saarema has also been famous for therapeutic spas since the 19th century, so perhaps a pax price/production boost would be a nice touch to the final bonus, even though this isn't a pax map as such. Or maybe +100% hotel revenues in Estonia or something.
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Re: Latvia (beta) Unread post

Gumboots, thank you... the map after your changes looks excellent! !**yaaa

I checked all your and RulerofRails posts and it looks like you implemented all the proposed changes. I accepted all the changes, a few comments:
Gumboots wrote:The war of independence officially ended on August 11, 1920 when the Latvian–Soviet Peace Treaty was signed.
- Not really… well, yes, from historical point of view the independence was gained from Russia on August 11, 1920. But for all the people official “birth date” of Latvian republic is Proclamation Day of the Republic of Latvia, 18 November, 1918. Therefore, I suggest to put back 1918 at scenario. For almost all Latvian people (who is far from history and politic) August 11, 1920 make no sense.
Gumboots wrote:4/ Get rid of corn farms. Corn isn't grown in Latvia anyway (wrong climate) and corn farms crowd out other industries. If necessary, use an event to increase production of wool and livestock (+25% should be about right).
- :-D I live in Riga, but as far I can see in country we have many fields with corn seeded… yes, this corn unable to growth completely and is used to feed livestock and other animals. So, I suggest to put them back.
Gumboots wrote:5/ Increase the logging camps slider to 55%, to match the livestock slider.
- I increased the logging camps slider in some other regions (except Central).
Gumboots wrote:I suggest having territories at Liepaja and Ventspils, to take 20 loads of Cheese and 20 loads of Clothing as Silver medal goals. This would give people a good reason to use the western end of the map, instead of just laying track for the connections.
- May be for Riga it would be great to have also other required hauls – cheese, clothes and goods? What do you think?
RulerofRails wrote:So with one port we are only seeing a consumption of 3 per year (6/2), whereas in the late game the player should be shipping ...
- Ok, may be better will be place one port to Riga in map designer?
Gumboots wrote:I am thinking some of the events could be tweaked. The "connect to Kolka" event never made sense, until I looked up Kolka. It has cultural and historical importance as the last Latvian refuge of the Livonian ethnic group and their language, but anyone outside the Baltic region would probably never know this. More of an explanation/story there would be good.
- Exactly, I am going to rewrite event description… Also I increased the density of population for Kolka – it should be more interesting for industry point of view.
Gumboots wrote:This would be a nice tie-in with Kolka, since Saarema also has Livonians living there. Saarema has also been famous for therapeutic spas since the 19th century, so perhaps a pax price/production boost would be a nice touch to the final bonus, even though this isn't a pax map as such. Or maybe +100% hotel revenues in Estonia or something.
- You right… This week I was visited Saaremaa, their spas and nature are very cool :-D … ok, I will add an event for Kolka – Saaremaa connection.
Gumboots wrote:The Rail Baltica event (connect Tartu to Mazeiki) could also be replaced with something better. The Mazeiki connection relies on a little step in the border there, just big enough to poke a large station into. I thought it was clever of Juriko to do that. However, it effectively means the Lithuanian access cost is irrelevant since Mazeiki is the only city in that territory. If the oil refinery doesn't seed, you'll never want to go there anyway.
So maybe change the Rail Baltica event. As soon as you connect to Pjarnu, the Estonians decide they want you to sort their railways too. Say $250k bonus for connecting each of the remaining Estonian cities. Then a big bonus of $1-2 million once all six are connected, since that will require a short suspension bridge to Saarema.

Ok, I will redesign event, may be we will extend the map with some other Lithuanian cities…
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Re: Latvia (beta) Unread post

Ok, if Latvians like 1918 I'm happy to go with 1918. It's a game. The important thing is to make people happy. (0!!0)

Funny about the corn. I looked up corn online but couldn't find anything about it in Latvia. But sure we can put them back if you like. Do you know how long it has been grown there? Was it a Latvian commercial crop in the 1920's and 1930's?
May be for Riga it would be great to have also other required hauls – cheese, clothes and goods? What do you think?
My feeling is that Riga has enough with the meat and lumber haulage. Personally I like having the extra haulage at Ventspils and Leipaja. I think this gives the western end of the map more interest.
Ok, may be better will be place one port to Riga in map designer?
It will usually seed one port in Riga. I think if you placed one in the editor, it might tend to seed a second one more often. I think it plays well even with one port in Riga. I like only getting a second one sometimes and not all the time. If you want to place one in the editor, I'd reduce the seeding slider for Riga ports to 50% (at a guess).
Exactly, I am going to rewrite event description… Also I increased the density of population for Kolka – it should be more interesting for industry point of view.
Well I looked up stuff online, and it said the Latvian government has a very strict policy of keeping the Livonian coast unspoiled to preserve the culture. According to the historical information I can find, during the 1920's and 1920's that era was very isolated. So does it really make sense to turn Kolka into an industrial and rail hub?
Ok, I will redesign event, may be we will extend the map with some other Lithuanian cities…
Funny you should mention that. The southern edge of the map has to go to about 53.5 degrees North anyway, so Klaipėda and Šiauliai would fit. And after learning more I think the Mazeiki connection is a good idea, since it is a major rail junction.

If you really want to make Baltic people happy...

The map is very stretched, east to west. RulerofRails and I were chatting by PM, and we thought that (if you want to) we could make a map that had the correct proportions. This is not hard to to. The RT3 editor does heightmaps, but it uses a cylindrical projection. That means the further north and south you go, the more the map gets stretched.

On the other hand, DEM's from the CGIAR-CSI GeoPortal can be joined, cropped and resized to suit any map. The result can be imported into the RT3 editor and will have the correct proportions and elevations. This not hard to do. I can give you a bare map already done.

For example, at the correct proportions (balancing east-west and north-south distances at 56 degrees North, and cropping a bit of the sea at the western end) the map can be done as 768x512. That is shorter than your map, but a lot taller, so actual land area is about 40% more. That's probably too much area. It could also be done as 704x448, and leaving a bit more sea at the western end, which would have about 10% more land area than the existing map. My feeling is that the economy and events of the existing map could be transferred to a 704x448 and play almost well as they do now. They might need a bit of adjustment, but probably not a lot.

You can also apply satellite images to the map, which does realistic terrain painting for you: Using Google maps and MicroDEM together.
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Re: Latvia (beta) Unread post

Gumboots wrote:Funny about the corn. I looked up corn online but couldn't find anything about it in Latvia. But sure we can put them back if you like. Do you know how long it has been grown there? Was it a Latvian commercial crop in the 1920's and 1930's?
You were right, a corn appears in Soviet time after WWII... so, I disabled corn again.
Gumboots wrote:My feeling is that Riga has enough with the meat and lumber haulage. Personally I like having the extra haulage at Ventspils and Leipaja. I think this gives the western end of the map more interest.

A paper and fertilizer was added, a complete list of changes is here:

v0.17
FIX: Corn is removed from industries
FIX: Riga has one port for default, a port probability is 50%
FIX: In addition, Liepaja expects a 20 loads of fertilizer, Ventspils expects a 20 loads of paper for silver event
FIX: Kolka event is renamed to “Livonian coast” and described with historical facts
FIX: Map description was changed
Gumboots wrote:The map is very stretched, east to west. RulerofRails and I were chatting by PM, and we thought that (if you want to) we could make a map that had the correct proportions. This is not hard to to. The RT3 editor does heightmaps, but it uses a cylindrical projection. That means the further north and south you go, the more the map gets stretched.

The first version of map was created by my son Alex... We never thought that this map could be so nice and interesting like it is today (thank you again!). I talk to him, he told that to extend the map is almost to create a new one. That why, if you sure that changes you wrote do not require a whole redesign, it would be nice to have the correct proportions... Also, a few more Lithuanian cities will be nice to include to the map.
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Re: Latvia (beta) Unread post

Alex is right to say that changing the proportions is almost like making a new map. There is quite a bit of work involved, but the land area would be about the same, and I think the economy and events would translate well to the different proportions. That should reduce testing time significantly. I'm interested to try it because I have some ideas which I think may make map creation easier, but it would be a good to make a decision on when this scenario is to be finished. That way there won't be an endless cycle of "Hey I had this really good idea!". :mrgreen:

You want it ready for release in 2018, to coincide with the declaration of independence. How much history do you want to include? You probably noticed that I added an option to switch extra history on and off, so you can include as much as you like. I know the declaration of independence was in November 1918, but the pesky Russians started a war a few days later, and invaded up to Riga in January 1919. At one stage the independent Latvian government only controlled one ship in Liepaja harbour. Naturally the war would have interfered with railway reconstruction, and like any war and anything to do with the Soviet empire it had a lot of nasty events associated with it. It's up to you how much of this you feel like including, and how much you want to leave out in the interest of easy-going fun.

Don't worry about putting more in if you want to. One of the good things about RT3 maps is they can give a way of learning more about subjects you didn't know much about. It's always good to learn new things. (0!!0)
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Re: Latvia (beta) Unread post

I volunteer to help out with transferring events, cities, slider settings etc. to a version with the correct scale if needed. Some creators already transfer all events onto a clean map once the testing phase is finished to avoid any map degradation. So this is a good last step when everything is finished as Gumboots said. A fair amount of the work in making a quality map goes into testing and creating/adjusting/tweaking the events to make the scenario nice. This work isn't lost.

I agree with Gumboots that more history would be good. I know very little about Latvia, as I'm sure is the case with 90% of RT3 players.

Newspapers and/or normal dialogs can be used to show political history, major events wars, famines, economic crashes/booms, births/career highlights of famous Latvians, any significant events for Latvia. This is where you with your local knowledge can add extra interest to the map. We are interested in learning about Latvian history. :salute:

If you look at what has been done in other maps you will see that most historical newspapers don't have Effects attached to them. But some do, with effects on economy, build cost, and maintenance cost examples of what can be easily adjusted. If you add the history, I'm more than happy to help suggest and implement attaching game-play friendly events that will add even more to the map. :-)
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Re: Latvia (beta) Unread post

Good point about the effects. The on/off option I added is only for historical news events that don't have effects attached to them.

Any that did have effects attached to them would have to be coded so they were not disabled if someone chooses to switch off history. The off switch is only meant to speed things up for people who have played the map before, and who are just trying for a medal or trying different strategies.
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Re: Latvia (beta) Unread post

Thank you... !$th_u$!

I will add a few more historic events during this week, please, wait... but the most important (Soviet occupation and then WWII) are after 1940, therefore may be I will extend scenario to 22-25 years.

Besides this, I start year is still 1920, I was mentioned 1918 in the beginning of scenario description.
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Re: Latvia (beta) Unread post

Wellll, personally I'd skip WW2. Everybody knows it totally sucked for anyone involved in it, and I'm really not sure how you could usefully tie it in to the scenario. I'd be inclined to end the scenario on a good note, and leave the next lots of invading mongrels out of it. I reckon just tell people about Latvia. Don't bother telling them about Nazis and Soviets. Nobody like Nazis and Soviets anyway. ;-)
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juriko
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Re: Latvia (beta) Unread post

Here it is… changes for the v0.18:

FIX: Kolka event description was corrected
ADD: A few more historical events were added (Latvian new currency, Nazi-Soviet pact, Latvia annexion by USSR)
FIX: Map description was corrected
Newspapers and/or normal dialogs can be used to show political history, major events wars, famines, economic crashes/booms, births/career highlights of famous Latvians, any significant events for Latvia. This is where you with your local knowledge can add extra interest to the map. We are interested in learning about Latvian history.
- Well, yes, but too much events also is not good… I added a few more – the more important and interesting things from historical point of view. Also, I should admit that all the connection events are very useful and are on time.

I think the map is ready – I tested it again and it looks very good after all our changes! If you have possibility to change a map to a correct scale – it would be really great! Also, please, add a few more Lithuanians cities, if possible…
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Gumboots
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Re: Latvia (beta) Unread post

I think this map is good enough for archiving as it is. The proportions aren't geographically perfect, but it plays well and is a lot of fun.

Realistically, limited time and energy is making me postpone any extra work on this map. When I do have spare time it is primarily going into work on locomotives and cargo cars. I think RoR is in the same situation.

So I'd recommend just archiving the current version of the Latvia map as a good scenario. If at some point in the future, hopefully before 2018, we all find ourselves having the spare time to do it then we could think about revamping the scenario with accurate proportions.
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juriko
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Re: Latvia (beta) Unread post

Gumboots, RulerofRails and others, thank you very much for support… without your this map couldn’t be so interesting! Anyway, please, archive it or I should do it by myself? Or I should contact Hawk?

Also we discussed with my son the idea to create a new map called “Rail Baltic”. Of course we will use experience earned with this map (especially an event composition, geography, thank you again Gumboots), but may be there is any good resource for map creators?

As I told before with map publishing we are on time – in next year we celebrate 100 years of Proclamation Day of the Republic of Latvia.
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Gumboots
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Re: Latvia (beta) Unread post

Hawk explains the system for archiving here: Adding Files to the Archive!

You're welcome for the advice and scripting help. I enjoyed doing it, and I'm sure the others did too. (0!!0)

There are heaps of resources for map creation. The main problem is not lack of resources, but that the RT3 interface is not very convenient to use. I would love to be able to re-code it. :roll: Wikimedia has stacks of useful maps. That's probably the best place to start.

The best way of getting heightmaps is MicroDEM. It will make more accurate maps than the PopTop map builder. It's not too bad for usability. If you just want a heightmap of any area I can give you one in about ten minutes, already corrected for latitiude (ie: north-south distances at the same scale as east-west). If you want one of Latvia, just let me know.

I have been thinking about map creation. The first problem is the projection. DEM's (and the PopTop map builder) use the Miller Cylindrical projection. Most maps of Europe use a different projection, as does Google Earth, which makes thing a bit awkward. I did an experiment, converting Google Earth shots to a cylindrical projection by tiling small sections and correcting the meridians. That's not too bad a process and gives very accurate results.That will give you full terrain painting quite easily.

I do city placement by calculating their latitude and longitude from the edges of the map. IIRC, Wolverine even made a spreadsheet to do the calculations, but I do mine on an old programmable calculator. Same result either way. It means you don't have to guess where the cities go.

The other main things are rivers and borders. I would do those with the BMP2GMP tool. Start with a map that has rivers and borders marked on it, and apply it to the .gmp as terrain painting. That would make it easy to draw in your rivers and territories. Once you have those done, use the same tool to apply the satellite imagery (if you are using that) to the .gmp for a finished product.
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