Latvian Republic 1920

Discussion about reviews and strategies for user created scenarios made for RT3 version 1.05 and earlier.
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Gumboots
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Re: Latvia (beta) Unread post

Man there are a lot of swamps in this area. *!*!*! Almost as many swamps as rivers, funnily enough. I've got about half of them done. They're a random patchwork of land and water cells, so sometimes there might be a path through them without a bridge, and sometimes there won't be (mostly won't).

Anyway, events. For the next beta I've decided on:

1/ 20% reduction in all Latvian cargo production at game start, increasing by 5% per year until it reaches 100% (IOW, normal after four years). Percentages can easily be tweaked if necessary.

2/ Have reinstated the ability to do unlimited multiple companies, but...

3/ ...the catch is that every time you start an extra one (not counting your first one) access cost for Russia increases by $1.5 million. So you can robber baron and/or cash cow to your heart's content if you want to, but if you do that you'll be up for a whole lot of money to get into Russia, and you need Russia for Gold. Creating a total of three companies will put Russian access cost at $6 million. If that's still too exploitable I'll add some extra devious nasties, but I thought it was worth trying the option for extra fun and games (we are supposed to be having fun here).

4/ The requirement for Estonian pax haulage has been increased from 20 loads to 25 per year to avoid a penalty. Penalty for <25 loads is the same as before ($200k company, $40k player).

5/ Bonus for 25+ loads has been halved ($100k company, $20k player) but there are now additional higher bonuses for 50+ loads ($200k company, $40k player, or the same as previously) and 75+ loads ($300k company, $60k player) and 100+ loads ($400k company, $80k player). Since Estonian pax haulage is a thing I thought I might as well encourage it some more. You can haul a lot of them if you decide to really go for it, but if you don't want to you don't have to.

6/ The Latvia-Estonia alliance early in the game no longer gives a reduction in access cost to Estonia. Instead, it now gives cheaper track laying in Estonia.

7/ Russia now has a 30% reduction on all cargo production. Can easily be tweaked if necessary.

8/ Requirement to haul Automobiles to Pskov has been removed.

9/ Instead, Gold now requires personal cash to be 0 or greater. (IOW, no personal debt. May change this to a modest PNW requirement. Will see how it goes.)

10/ Lithuanian offer of assistance no longer gives the option of increased pulling power. It's not needed on this map, and was playing havoc with express/freight loco balance with the new cargo car scale (which I am using, even though it's not compulsory or necessary). Instead, you get the option of a further 10% reduction in water and oil usage, for an additional increase in range. This will increase locomotive effectiveness, so is pretty much as good as extra pulling power but without the balance problems.

This has all been coded and is ready to rumble (assuming I haven't made any mistakes). The only other significant changes are the swamps, which will require a bit more thought given to track laying in some areas but won't make things painful, and the extra river (ditto).


Ok, swamps are done now, or at least as far as water patches go. I may add swampy sounds to them just as a bit of a warning, as they can be hard to spot. I'll also check them to make sure none of them really knacker anything important in the way of routes, but they seem ok for that.
swampy_innit.jpg
If you think this is bad, it's nowhere near as bad as the real deal. This is just representative of the area, to the limits of my patience. :lol:
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Re: Latvia (beta) Unread post

Good work. One thing I thought I should point out with the liquidated stations is that I believe they will forever block anything else from built at the exact small square on which they were centered. Obviously not a major deal, should be fine, but something to watch for if you have some tight space near rivers, ocean etc..

PS. I tried fooling a little with station revenue. When I liquidated a company I had to manually doze in all stations. The date stayed correct as far as I can see, which doesn't line up with what you said. **!!!** Anyway, I tried using a liquidated station placed in the future (1920), so went back 50 years to 1870. Revenues are fairly similar to a brand new station, but I did start getting inconsistencies, which were most obvious when I started maps after re-booting the game. (Remember I found that there are 2 seed types for this case?) Well, in my "test" there appeared to be two revenues tied to this. For example 8 cars @ $706k vs @ $614k. That's an almost 15% revenue swing! :shock: Important to note that this is appearing to only affect stations built "in the future." Would bring a whole new meaning to "lucky seed", presuming that it carried through the game all that. I think I'm not going to explore this further for now. I was hoping not to find these type of side effects.
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Re: Latvia (beta) Unread post

One thing I thought I should point out with the liquidated stations is that I believe they will forever block anything else from built at the exact small square on which they were centered.
:roll: This game has more bugs than the Amazon rainforest. :-P

Have you tested this to be certain, or is it a theory? It could definitely be a problem in a few places. Will have to play things through to see how it goes, but hopefully giving the .gmp amnesia about past station might help the situation.
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Re: Latvia (beta) Unread post

Pretty sure. It's a bit like placing warehouses in the editor. Traces remain. You might get lucky, but just giving you a heads up. I saw it in my "test" running.

I noticed the effect first when trying to build small depots for resource deliveries to industries (on the same cell). If you want to doze the station in order to have room for another Steel Mill, Power Plant or any other large footprint building, you might just be out of luck. TBH, stations are quite forgiving compared to the other buildings so I wouldn't worry about it anywhere except where room is tight.
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Re: Latvia (beta) Unread post

That's the problem. I only used test stations where room is tight, because those are the obvious spots that you are going to want to test. And, of course, I tested with large stations. Anyway, it's done now so we'll just have to see how it plays. Attempting to duplicate the whole thing without test stations would drive me nuts.

Edit: Just tried some quick testing. Seems to be ok. !*th_up*!
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Re: Latvia (beta) Unread post

Here, try this one when you have time and see what you think. This has everything except final terrain painting touch-ups and forests, which can be done soonish.

From a few trial starts the seeding seems generally reasonable. May want to tweak production in a few regions slightly, but the variations that are popping up now seem ok on the whole. Riga is also seeding well most of the time, although occasionally it will want to do something silly.

I've added an extra bit of trickery to deal with company-jumping exploits. Obviously the increased Russian access cost can't apply if you already have access to Russia. However, the Kremlin can decide that making a nice donation to the glorious revolution is the price you pay for being tolerated while you play capitalist tricks. So, if you have access to Russia already and start an extra company you are still up for an extra $1.5 million for each extra company you start, except that in these cases it comes out of your personal cash, not your company cash. That should get people thinking before they get carried away. :mrgreen:

Oh, and the fines for failing the Strugi booze haulage now escalate with each failure. Just to provide a bit of encouragement. ;-) I may add a small demand for Alcohol at the Strugi warehouse, but haven't done that yet. I was finding it was still doable without bait and switch, providing you were inventive with sourcing loads and providing you didn't mind using Strugi as a re-haul hub to some extent. I found this made the task more interesting than it otherwise would have been.

And in case anyone does want to play this with the latest possible start date of 2000, I've enabled all electric trains for the 21st century. I'll never use them, but somebody might want to. All diesels are enabled from 1953 onwards too.

Edit: Oh bother, I forgot to edit the .gmp to sort out the station names thing. I'll do that before we get to the final version.

Edit again: Scratch this beta. See next post for reasons (RT3 bugz again).
Last edited by Gumboots on Thu Jul 19, 2018 2:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Latvia (beta) Unread post

Crap. Another RT3 bug. :roll:

Even though the test companies were liquidated in the editor before saving the .gmp, the game is remembering one of them as an existing but liquidated company. It works like this:

1/ Start scenario as usual. Checking company list shows no companies in existence.

2/ Start first company, as per prompt.

3/ Check "Attempt merger" and get told there are no other companies to merge with. So far, so good.

4/ Robber baron your first company, resign, short sell, the usual.

5/ Start second company, and buy up stock of first company for a few k (at this point access cost for Russia increases by $1.5 million, as it should).

6/ Go to "Attempt merger" again and there will be two companies listed. The first in the list is the test company that was liquidated in the editor, but for some reason is now appearing in the merger list with a book value of -$24k.

If you merge with that company at this point, just to get it out of the way, suddenly your company has full access to all territories. There appears to be no way of coding to prevent this (I've tried several things) and it basically screws the whole game up. The only way around it is to not merge that liquidated company at this point, but in that case the ghost company will hang around in the merger list ad infinitum, and clicking on it to merge at any point, even by mistake, gives the same problem: full access to all territories.

Oh, but get this! Say you don't click on it by mistake, and actually merge the first company that you created and robbed. In that case, suddenly the merger list become empty again. No other companies to merge with.

But then you robber your current one and resign, etc again. Start a new company, buy up stock in previous one, go to merger list and what do you know? That ghost company from the testing phase is back in the merger list again.

You can rinse and repeat this stupidity for as long as you like. If there is a real company to merge with, the ghost company will also appear in the merge options. If there are no real companies to merge with, the merge list will be empty.

Like I said, this game has more bugs than the Amazon rainforest. |--0


Ok, so the question is: why is it doing this? I haven't heard of this behaviour before. I suppose it is possible that the number of events in this scenario is simply overloading what passes for RT3's brain, and therefore it's starting to break down a bit in places, but most things work as they should.

Anyway, it's turning out to be more trouble than it's worth. The obvious way around it would be to disallow mergers. That would solve the problem, but would mean that if you did want to play robber baron there would always be stray companies running around trying to do their own thing. Which would be a disincentive for robber baron tricks I suppose. If you have to deal with half a dozen dumb AI companies running around Latvia that is definitely going to make the Gold medal goals a lot more difficult.

Disallowing mergers would also prevent the old trick of starting a sacrificial company just to purchase access to another territory. All territory access would have to be purchased the honest way, which isn't such a bad thing either. It would still allow running a secondary company for personal profit, but in the absence of a significant PNW goal there's not much point in that.

I'm coming to the reluctant conclusion that the best thing may be to go back to disallowing multiple companies, and to include a substantial PNW goal for Expert Gold (but not for Gold on lower levels). Scenarios with a useless stock market tend to annoy me a bit. Basic connect and haul gets dull pretty quickly, IMO. :-P
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Re: Latvia (beta) Unread post

Ok, I've decided to be sensible. Amazing, I know, but stranger things have happened. :-D

Have gone back to having multiple companies disabled. No robber baron trix. No personal cash or PNW requirements either. All the crud associated with those things has been deleted from the events, which has been a good thing and saved a lot of code. It's now back to being good ol' Baltic connect and haul. Hey ho.

It still has the other changes mentioned earlier: escalating fines for failure to deliver to Strugi, escalating bonuses for Estonian pax haulage, etc, etc. These are comparatively minor tweaks, and should help game balance and interest.

Still haven't cleaned up the station names, but I've had a bit more of a look at the hex. All the cities that had one or more test stations built in them have 08 07 00 00 for the build date (corresponds to 1800 in normal format) but they also have 66 66 A6 3F as the next four bytes.
Test_station_gmp_hex.png
Cities which never had a test station built in them have 00 00 00 00 for the build date (makes sense) and 00 00 80 3F as the next four bytes.

The interesting thing here is that 66 66 A6 3F is 1.3 when converted to decimal, and 00 00 80 3F is 1.0 in decimal. So for some reason the game is recording a value of 1.3 if a station has been built and 1.0 is no station was ever built. There's nothing obvious that I can think of to explain these values, but they are consistent across all cities.

That implies that a proper clean-up would also replace these eight bytes, as well as the single byte that sets where the city is on the list of station suffixes. This may work just fine, or it may completely bork something important. Only one way of finding out. *!*!*!

Edit: Had a thought. All the testing was done with large stations, since that's all anyone usually builds in a game, and if they fit any station will fit. It is possible that if 1.0 means no station, then 1.1 means small station and 1.2 means medium station and 1.3 means large station. Although I don't know offhand why the game would need to record the size of extinct stations, or why it would use such an odd format to do it, but at the moment I can't think of any other reason for all of these cities to be so consistent in those bytes.
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Re: Latvia (beta) Unread post

Well, the "proper clean-up" idea seems to work. Went through the .gmp and replaced the 08 07 00 00 66 66 A6 3F bytes with 00 00 00 00 00 00 80 3F in all relevant cities. Gave it a quick test run, and stations can be built, they have the right names, there are no errors being recorded in the validation screens, and in-game functionality appears to be normal. So, I'm calling it a working beta. !*th_up*!

Edit: Removed due to a bug. Next one will be up soon.
Last edited by Gumboots on Fri Jul 20, 2018 12:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Latvia (beta) Unread post

Found a bug. All Latvian cargo production is reduced 20% at the start of the game, but the increment event to slowly boost it back to normal wasn't firing. No idea why. It used basically the same code as the one that reduced the production, except for a boost. Didn't work. Hey ho.

Edit: Aha! Brainwave! I forgot that "Current game year" has to be an actual year (1923, etc). For what I'm wanting to do I have to use "Years elapsed since game start". D'oh. *!*!*! Ok, will fix that.

The good news is that I noticed that the game actually played well with that reduction in place for longer than it was supposed to be, so I'm now thinking a general reduction in rural seeding density would be good. Cities are about right, but knocking the regions back bit makes sense. This may mean I can get away without the reduction and increase events, which would be good. !*th_up*!

OTOH, having fewer farms, etc, but all industries operating at normal production, would make an industry start easier because secondary industries (lumber mills, factories, etc) would have higher profit margins if adequately supplied. So, I may keep the reduction/increase events, but target them only at factory production for the first few years. I have a feeling this will end up being the best overall balance.
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Re: Latvia (beta) Unread post

Am halfway through a play of this setup now, and it has the very lean early years like the original. Things start to get moving in the mid-1920's. I think I can win it from here, but am not entirely sure yet. At the start of 1930 I'm still not into any other countries, but it's generally playing very nicely and has required some careful weighing of options. I'll play it through and keep an eye out for any more bugs, but I think I'll have a good beta ready for the weekend. !*th_up*!
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Re: Latvia (beta) Unread post

Well I screwed that up too. Started looking around a bit and realised that my clever event to cut Strugi alcohol production at the warehouse there won't work if the warehouse is coded as supply, rather than production via a conversion. It was working before but I must have changed something, and when I looked over in Russia I realised that it had been merrily churning out booze for years. Consequently, there was no chance of ever hauling booze to Strugi unless you used bait and switch for the lot. *!*!*!

So, I have another of Baldrick's cunning plans now. The Strugi warehouse no longer has a suppressed alcohol supply at all. It's recoded so that if you get booted from Russia for not hauling enough booze, it will now seed a distillery and five produce farms in an area centred on Strugi township. It was only supposed to make booze there if you get booted out of Russia, and it'll do that now. !*th_up*!

Incidentally, I realised that with the Auto haulage to Pskov removed it's now hypothetically possible to get Gold on Expert level without buying into Russia at all. You need the oil from Pskov to get the Diesel haulage target to Klaipeda, but you don't actually need access to Russia as such. You could:

a/ build a refinery on the Latvian side of the border (10% cheaper than buying access) then let the Tycoonatrons drag the oil over and haul the resulting Diesel to Klaipeda, or

b/ build a large station on the Latvia side of the border, have a train sitting there set to 8 cars minimum and direct route to Mazeikiai, and the demand from Mazeikiai will transfer to the border station and Oil will make its way over the border. Haul to Mazeikiai refinery, buy refinery (cheaper than building your own) make Diesel and haul to Klaipeda.

So Russia is really now just for the extra fun and games, if you want them. I think this fits the whole Baltic states thing better anyway. If you don't want to play with the Russians, you can just steal their oil. You can also win without buying into Estonia though, so I might change that. ;-)



So anyway I'm now on Beta 10, and I made some more changes on the way there. I was using dummy events as dividers in the events list, which is an old trick to make it easier to read when you're working on it, and I realised that this was kinda dumb. I changed it so that the dividers are now actual events that were there already, but with a different heading to keep the divisions clear. This saves a fair few events, which on a scenario like this is a good thing, and it's still clearly categorised. I also cleaned up a few other events to reduce the amount of unnecessary code.

The Kolka connection thing never felt right to me either. Connecting it to Riga for tourists is pretty much the opposite of current Latvian policy, and wasn't relevant during the interwar period either. However :mrgreen: there was a railway connection to the Livonian coast between the wars. It didn't go quite as far as Kolka, but it wasn't far short of there. It was a narrow gauge line that ran from Ventspils to Mazirbe, then inland to Dundaga, and I found out today that between the wars it was the main method of transportation for passengers in the region. So, I added a couple more coastal villages (Mazirbe and Mikeltornis) and changed the event so you have to connect those and Kolka to Ventspils. This gives the Livonian coast thing a more satisfying purpose, and is more historically accurate. !*th_up*!
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Re: Latvia (beta) Unread post

Oooooooooooooooooookkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk. :lol:

I played it right through. It's a total riot. I love it. :mrgreen: I'll tweak the game goals a little bit though. I ended up with this:
Beta_10_November_1938.jpg
I got that $156m CBV with all bonds paid off (just because I could, I paid the whole $10m off in one year with cash to spare). So, I think CBV requirement can be boosted. Somewhere around $120m for Expert level would probably be about right.

Meat and Lumber haulage goals are about right, but could be boosted to 250 loads each for Expert level. This time around I only had one port seed in Riga, and it never upgraded, so Meat to Riga was a bit trickier than usual, but getting 250 wouldn't have been hard from where I was.

The basic Riga port also made the Autos to Daugavpils trickier than usual, because the only place that would make them was Klaipeda. Normally you'd easily be able to haul more, but since it's only a Bronze medal goal I'll leave it at 10 loads.

Oh yeah, and the Oil Refinery didn't seed at Mazeikiai, so I had to build my own on the Russian border to get Diesel to ship to Klaipeda to make Autos.

And Ventspils didn't seed a port until very late in the game, which naturally meant Clothing and Paper haulage to Ventspils was a bit trickier than normal too. *!*!*! Those ones and the Liepaja goals (Fertiliser and Cheese) are quite sensitive to port seeding, so probably shouldn't be increased much, if at all.

And Estonia! Well, I added a pax total haulage goal to go with the annual bonus/fine haulage thang. This is for loads to Estonian stations, and I set it at 400 loads for this test. As you can see, I sorta went over that a bit. :lol: There's a lot of pax to haul in Estonia once you get going. I'm thinking I'll drop the production boost a bit. It's currently 100% in Estonia and 50% in Latvia. 60% and 30% is probably about right. That should still allow hauling an easy 500 loads if you went into Estonia a bit late.

After building the refinery on the Russian border I ended up buying into Russia anyway, mostly just for the heck of it, but there was a bit of Meat haulage there too that I wanted and by that time the access cost was irrelevant.

So, I'll take another look at it in the morning, when I'm more awake, and set up some tweaked game goals. Then it'll be turned loose, to wreak havoc on the world. (0!!0)
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Re: Latvia (beta) Unread post

Probably being naive here, but my first thoughts are that if I can only get Bronze on Expert on the original Latvia, how am I supposed to beat Bronze on Expert with much more complicated objectives? :-(

It looks a fun, and well detailed, map though. !*th_up*!
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Re: Latvia (beta) Unread post

TheBonobo4 wrote: Sat Jul 21, 2018 2:27 pm Probably being naive here, but my first thoughts are that if I can only get Bronze on Expert on the original Latvia, how am I supposed to beat Bronze on Expert with much more complicated objectives? :-(
Get more cunning. ;-)

Bronze isn't not that big a deal on Hard, or lower difficulty levels. The catch is that on Expert level there is no Bronze or Silver. You either get a Gold, or you lose. :mrgreen:
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Re: Latvia (beta) Unread post

Gumboots wrote: Sat Jul 21, 2018 8:45 pm
TheBonobo4 wrote: Sat Jul 21, 2018 2:27 pm Probably being naive here, but my first thoughts are that if I can only get Bronze on Expert on the original Latvia, how am I supposed to beat Bronze on Expert with much more complicated objectives? :-(
Get more cunning. ;-)

Bronze isn't not that big a deal on Hard, or lower difficulty levels. The catch is that on Expert level there is no Bronze or Silver. You either get a Gold, or you lose. :mrgreen:
Gold only for expert eh? Is this a case of if you aren't first, you're last? ^**lylgh
I'll have to attempt it at some point.
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Re: Latvia (beta) Unread post

Wellll, I view Expert level as being for hard-core RT3 nutters, who tend to feel that anything less than Gold is a loss anyway, and get just as morose about a Silver as they would about a loss. So, might as well just make it a loss. Saves on coding. :-D

But even getting a gold on Hard difficulty would be a fairly decent effort. And if you figure out how to get one on Expert you'll be totally chuffed about it, so there's that psychological bonus available for those who are determined to grab it. It just requires sensible decisions in the early years, a good mixture of rail and industry, and keeping tabs on where you are up to with the various haulage goals and how you can source loads if they become necessary.

I did the whole thing without using bait and switch for any loads, in the sense that I didn't cheat haulage by switching stations after loading to force hauling at a loss in 1.05 (an old trick, if you ever need it). All loads were hauled at a profit, even if it was marginal at times. I did occasionally redirect a train that was in motion, to get a particularly good load counting towards a haulage goal, but this was only done if the loads would still make some profit after redirection.

The good thing about this map is that although it is fairly large (768x512) hardly any of it is wasted. You end up using almost the whole thing if you are going for gold. Which bits you use, and when, also varies between plays. I've been finding that it gives a pretty good range of seeding, with some being more difficult than others but all being ultimately playable.

The Estonian pax haulage sounds more intimidating than it really is. The pax production boost for Estonia and Latvia means the pax haulage becomes pretty much set and forget, providing you connect all Estonian cities and the Latvian cities just over the border. You might get hit with a fine for a year or two while it gets going, but once it ramps up you should get bonuses easily. Steel bridges are quite adequate, but it does pay to double track all main lines. Branch lines should be fine with single track.

Mind you, that applies to Latvia as well. With the amount of haulage going on, once you're a decade or so into it, double tracking all main lines helps a lot. Ditto for going a bit overboard on maintenance facilities, to spread trains between them more evenly and reduce choke points.

The alcohol haulage to Strugi Krasnye is likely to result in some fines if you aren't on top of it. It can take a year for a train to get there from wherever the booze is, and I got hit with a couple of fines myself. But by the time this happens the amount is hardly significant (which has me thinking I should increase the fines) and buying into Russia isn't essential anyway. By using border stations it should be possible to steal all relevant Russian haulage without actually crossing the border. But Strugi Krasnye is fun. :mrgreen:

PS: I was finding the swamps play well. They add a bit of track laying interest to the fairly flat terrain, without being obstacles as such. I may add a few more while finishing this thing up, depending on my mood at the time.
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Re: Latvia (beta) Unread post

Ok, it's tweaked for goals. Getting very close to a final product, but still needs trees and some minor terrain painting here and there.

To save confusion with the original Latvia map I've renamed this one to "Latvian Republic".
Last edited by Gumboots on Wed Jul 25, 2018 12:35 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Latvia (beta) Unread post

Minor bug. Actually got a loss this time, which enabled me to check the lose event. This was checking at the end of the month, but with the lose event only being relevant at the start of a year (20th, in this case) it's a waste of processing to check it more often than that. Also, checking at the end of the month means it doesn't fire until the end of January 1940, which is a month later than it should. So I've changed the coding to check at the start of each year (will be in the next beta).

Even though I got a loss this time, from a difficult starting seed combined with an early recession, having looked over the results and thought it through I'm pretty sure a win would have been possible. It looks like this thing is playing well with a range of seeding, and shouldn't be reliant on specific good seeds to be winnable.

Found a couple more dodgey river bits in out of the way places too. I think I'll set up a sandbox with tracks following every branch of every river as closely as possible, and take train rides up and down them until I've checked everywhere. !*th_up*!
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Re: Latvia (beta) Unread post

Gumboots wrote: Mon Jul 23, 2018 12:29 amFound a couple more dodgey river bits in out of the way places too. I think I'll set up a sandbox with tracks following every branch of every river as closely as possible, and take train rides up and down them until I've checked everywhere.
That's what I call dedication to make a quality scenario. :salute:
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