{NEW BETA} fix/update South Central British Columbia 1898

[Grandma Ruth]

I'm really enjoying this now but I doubt if I'll be able to win the Gold
Just a couple of things which I'm not sure if they're deliberate or not so forgive me if they are meant to be this way!
1. The haulage to Granby smelter events mention "BC Mines" but there is no such company.
2. Time to connect to Petain - briefing says 25 months, choice says 30 months. It actually took me 34 months. Might be better to say three years?
3. Event "Inconceivable!" is wrong: it says 3 tycoon points but only gives 2. (BTW, I haven't triggered this - I was just idly curious when I saw it in the Editor!)
4. The instructions about connecting to Petain say "place a station between the river and warehouse". But if you do, you're not connected Screenshots show what I mean.

Connected

Not connected

Lost in admiration for all the work this has taken

[RulerofRails]

Clarifications will be made, and the Inconceivable event corrected.

The estimated constructions times/prices I didn't edit. I think the track available at 68 per month is also not reflecting reality. Will look into that.

It's clear that JSS spent months devloping this scenario. I believe this map has more effort put into it than any other that I'm aware of. I have only spent a couple weeks trying to make things work as intended (get it out of beta state). RT3 is such that sometimes workarounds are needed and some complications are needed to do things which seem simple. But it was a fun challenge for me.

My plan is to make a new version after you finish your playthrough. No rush, but please keep the feedback coming. The more things you find the better.

[Grandma Ruth]

Thanks, I'm really enjoying it. Trouble is, I keep thinking of extra things that could be added. For example, as you said earlier, you've not gone much into the "tycoon points" idea - my thought was that you could have a dialogue which comes up, only once, the first time you get a tycoon point. It would explain the system, give some tips how to get or avoid losing points. Not too much detail, but enough for the player to get the gist.
At the moment I'm doing the tunnel - not sure how much I would go for this idea. I'm going to replay without the tunnel next and see what comes of that! This could be our lives' work!
ETA:
Event CM-Con.Oth.-01-00 (option for new connections) fires with "Current game month = 1" So it's a bit annoying to see the old briefing for a while after you've connected to Petain. It's not very important but just an irritation, but if you wanted to put in a temporary briefing text that would be

[Gumboots]

Thinking of more things to add is always a problem.

[Grandma Ruth]

Thinking of more things to add is always a problem.

Quite true! This could get to take over every waking hour - not to mention dreaming about it
I've got the Silver with and without the tunnel and I've done better without. Both the player and the company ended up in debt with the tunnel but both are solvent without it. It's the Tycoon Points that are doing me in - I only got 10 both times.

[RulerofRails]

Apologies for the delayed response. In regards to the tycoon points, there are 4 smelters in BC. I'm sure you have seen some end of year reports for them, at least for the Trail one. You will only see the report if you are connected to that smelter. There is a patch of lighter ground around each smelter to indicate where a station should be placed. There are 3 tycoon points available for each smelter by making the haulage quotas seen in the EoY report. That's 12 total there. Those points are not dependent too much on player skill. Connecting to the Coal fields at Coalmont and Merritt should be a priority.

The other big source of points is mergers. There is one for each company you merge (18 total). Some companies are large, but many of the industrial companies are small. It's not unrealistic to get 10 points this way.

There are some points for completing construction projects ahead of schedule. Maybe a half dozen or so. Also, for completing other construction projects you will also receive points. There is a point for completing the tunnel. There is another half dozen or so more "interesting" ones that I wont spoil specifically. For example regarding choices in the elections etc..

Did you get the message regarding hauling Goods to Petain? There actually isn't a "limit" on points available there (Note: it may not be the easiest way to earn points). There is one point at 50 loads, another at 100 loads, and then one for each hundred loads after that. The tunnel saves quite a bit of distance and fuel for trains that deliver Goods. Also the Coquihalla pass was in real life notoriously difficult to maintain due to harsh winters and very rugged terrain. This is simulated in the game: you will sometimes see a game message "Difficulties on Coquihalla pass". In the game trains will run much slower during this time and be a lot more likely to breakdown (be delayed). Obviously, the tunnel route avoids these difficulties.

[Grandma Ruth]

Well, I've connected again to Petain at May 1914 - this is a new game from the ones I was talking about above. I've got the message about taking Silver if you want but nothing about the goods to Petain - it has come up on the ledger though. I don't think my trains are going to go any farther west than Coalmont. I started three off from there with four loads of coal each in September 1912 and it's now May 1914 and they've not reached Trail yet. If I'd any sense, I would have set more going from there at regular intervals - in fact I might have to replay the last couple of game years. I kept missing a month's construction here and there because I was distracted by other things (in-game I mean, real life has had to be suspended whilst I made the connection to Petain!) Everything seems to be working OK though, I've not found any new unintentional problems.
ETA: Got the notice about goods to Petain at the end of the next month. Not a big problem.

[Grandma Ruth]

Had another go and again got Silver. But I think someone with more persistence and patience than me would get Gold. Started to try the alternative route, with no connections, but I don't see how that could work unless you have the offer of some track. Even if by magic you could take-over every other company, you will still need to do some hauling and that needs track! or have I missed something?

[Grandma Ruth]

or have I missed something?

Right, now I see. I've re-read some of your conversations earlier on in this thread and I've merged with the Bank. Well, well! Also been a bit more patient, which is not like me at all

[Gumboots]

When all else fails, read the instructions.

[Grandma Ruth]

When all else fails, read the instructions.

[Grandma Ruth]

I'm reading, but I'm not sure I'm understanding.
I'm trying to get the Gold, now, by the 30 points route rather than the connections (I suspect this is impossible - but...).
So to me that means that you don't need to have connected to Penticton or Petain. [Yes I've checked, that's what MC-Gold-2 says.] By some miracle you have managed to get 30 points without that But MC-Bronze-3 fires even when you're not obliged to connect to Petain. ****
Is this just a slip or am I not understanding the 30-points win condition? (MC-Gold-2) Shouldn't there be something to indicate that you are on the 30-points path? I should think it would be triggered by CR-Midway-01-0-3 but that only sets GV2 to 0.
And a couple of minor things:
1. The status and briefing aren't relevant if you've chosen not to connect, so it's a bit annoying to have them there all the same. And if you choose to connect anyway when offered, the deadline to Midway will be wrong. It will either be wrong if you take that route at the start or it will be wrong if you take the route later on. This reverts back to the 1904/1909 deadline we had problems with earlier. Probably just needs an extra status event.
2. Punishing the AI's - player cash doesn't work, it makes no difference to their stock holdings. I think this has been mentioned before.
How about reducing the value of their stock and/or messing with their credit rating? I'm not quite sure about this as that will affect their companies rather than the players.
I also did an experiment to see if they could be temporarily de-activated but it doesn't seem to be the case. De-activating is fine, it's re-activating that's the problem.
ETA: **** also there's a lose event that triggers, based on not having connected to Penticton

[Grandma Ruth]

"Plan B" getting the 30 points without connecting:

Much as I like this quirky idea of having two routes to the top, I'd be inclined to drop this alternative altogether, it has too many ramifications in an already complicated set-up. However, if we are going to keep it, this is what I suggest:
CR-Midway-01-0 Choice 3 sets GV3 to 10
CR-Petain-01-0 Choice 3 sets GV3 to 20
MC-Bronze-3 add trigger GV3=0
MC-Lose-1 add trigger GV3=0

You could also use the GV3 marker to set up different status pages, etc when someone has chosen the 30 points route, but you might think this is too much like hard work! (I have checked and as far as I can see GV3 is the only variable not currently in use.)

Meanwhile I am now attending the Labour Party Conference until 22nd so no more from me till then. It's an online event, this should be fun! No punch-ups though, only verbally and sadly no

[Grandma Ruth]

Well, I did manage to play a bit between the speeches and discussions. The more I try to win without connecting, the more I am convinced it can't be done. In theory there are 37 tycoon points that could be won this way, but that includes unlikely events like merging with CPR.
Here are some peculiarities I've found when going down the not-connecting route:
1. Smelter deliveries annual reports (IM-Service 2, 3, 4) There is no need to be connected to Trail to get the credit for deliveries so there is no need for the connection condition to the annual reports. In fact having them come up might be a nice hint that you should think about connecting the smelters.
2. Granby Smelter: this is just a "narrative" thing. I have already merged with BC Copper so the company doesn't exist, but it's offering me a deal!
3. CM-Granby Smelter-02 fires even though the preliminary events haven't happened - being offered a deal, choice to take it, etc. I don't know if this is deliberate but the Anaconda one doesn't fire. It's very nice to have the money but is it supposed to happen?

[RulerofRails]

I realize there is some problem with reconciling the 30-points option. It is mentioned in various places, with differing descriptions. This confuses everyone, including me when doing some setups. Something will be done, it's just a matter of what.

I hope you saw IM-01-01 (gain points) and IM-01-02 (lost points). These state that you need 30 points for Gold unless you participate in the connection to Petain, when the 25 point limit applies.

The "alternative" path sounds good, but IMO the economy on the map is in some way rewarding building a railway on the "defined" route (including express traffic consideration). A whole bunch of points are lost if you never get Coal to the Smelters in a timely fashion.

tl;dr
The best track availability is via the "standard" way (official projects are the only way to build something during the winter). There is some track saving if you try to connect Anaconda to Coalmount directly. But you miss out on a lot of land grants. In general this route isn't going to make money directly, there is little local economy along the way. You really need to invest a lot and then buy up the smelter to make it work. Generally the "money" routes are resource runs down from high plateaus in the middle of the map into the Okanagan Valley, or in the north.

I have had the thought that I wanted to let as many of the other events work as possible in this "mode." The map has too many events to add many more for this. I had thought that it was the "rebellious" choice (you were so confident in your abilities that you didn't need a "helping hand"). I didn't want it to have an advantage in general, but maybe something is needed to balance it a bit closer with the standard choice. I don't want to add more than a dozen events for this. I didn't spend a lot of time with this option, compared to the normal one, but there are strategies that work more often than not economically (to do with the resources on the high plateaus). Because I know so much about the map and point awarding (for example in the elections, Goods delivered to Petain, etc..), I didn't think my performance was illustrative (when I'm test-playing the map I'm trying to dumb my gameplay down a bit).

The other assumption about this mode can be that you get around the realistic track building pace. After pouring some hours into the map, what do you think about the realistic track building pace? To me it was part of the character of the map. For example the "other plans" option could give 500-750 track pieces per year (awarded as a lump delivery in the spring) and you can build them however, wherever. Without duplication I'm afraid that a lot of the story events can't be easily active in this mode. So, this mode would have less of the story. The real question: If you could do whatever, what would your most common starting moves on the map be? Would you generally follow the realistic route anyway (to chase the smelter points etc.), or do something else, and if so, what would that be?

---

1. Maybe there can be different connection checks for the Smelters. (Any suggestions? Maybe a connection to Penticton? Where else would you haul Steel?) I left them this way because I thought that it's annoying for the player to see many notices that have no meaning on his game yet. This is of course a matter of preference.

2. Granby Smelter TV1 = 1 means that BC Copper is still active. But there is also need to check the territory BC Smelting.... We can't check variables from two different territories in the same event. This needs a new event to "combine" the tests. This will be fixed.

3. This and some of the following events check Granby Smelter territory. It's a simple matter of adding a test for TV1 = 1.

Re, the AI player cash: I can't force AI to sell stock, the personal cash "fine" is a workaround. This is set as approx. 40% of their current stock value. The ratio can be adjusted. I didn't go more aggressive because the advanced play, since his purchasing power is a lot tighter, to "flush" him out via your character selling/shorting the shares of the company/s the AI is most heavily invested in. There is a cascading effect. Just like when you are margin called, in oversold assets the price is dropping faster and faster. If he is forced to sell many shares instantly he will most likely be wiped out.

Side-note: The most advanced stock plays involve using your shares as bait for the AI. Note: it requires a sacrifice of PNW in the short term. The basic idea is to over time (just before each month end) keep selling shares in your company with a target price just below the level at which he will buy on margin. Keep going until he is heavily in margin and his purchasing power is low. Then it's time to "pull the plug": sell/short your shares in any AI companies in which he is invested, the ones he has a largest stake in first. Once a critical point is reached, he will be forced to sell most of his assets. You can then pick up these shares for a song, and any majority (for example the CPR) can be broken up. Tip: make sure to buy shares back to sustainable price levels or the other AI characters will do it for you, making them unspeakably rich.

[Grandma Ruth]

Just a quick thought, more later - the smelter connection test could be "company track pieces >0" in the smelter territory.

[Grandma Ruth]

The other assumption about this mode can be that you get around the realistic track building pace. After pouring some hours into the map, what do you think about the realistic track building pace? To me it was part of the character of the map. For example the "other plans" option could give 500-750 track pieces per year (awarded as a lump delivery in the spring) and you can build them however, wherever. Without duplication I'm afraid that a lot of the story events can't be easily active in this mode. So, this mode would have less of the story. The real question: If you could do whatever, what would your most common starting moves on the map be? Would you generally follow the realistic route anyway (to chase the smelter points etc.), or do something else, and if so, what would that be?

I quite like the realistic track building pace, once you get used to it. I think a lot depends on what kind of a game-player you are. I believe - though I could be wrong - that most games started out with "taking turns" so if you have that kind of thing in mind then you might get into a rhythm of doing the same thing each game-month. So build some track, sell some shares, etc. Also a very practical thing for me is that my hands aren't what they were and it's better not to have to grip the mouse for long at a time.

Interesting question, what would my starting moves be? Well the one thing that I would normally do I can't do, which would be to build or buy industry. At the moment I've started with merging the easier companies, then I made a big mistake in selling off some assets which I would have done better to keep and make profitable. I connected to the Nelson smelter early on and am bringing down cargoes from the CPR to the two eastern smelters.
The two in the middle I connected to each other - not by the recommended route - and at the moment I'm connecting with Trail via the USA, as you can't connect over the forbidden territory. I'm just doing that to see if it's viable and it does seem to be so far. I might have to do a test run to see which route is the quickest! **** I did - the American route was much quicker ****

By the way, why is there a restriction on access to the USA? It drove me bonkers the first time I encountered it - there's no hint in the narrative (or maybe I missed it). I'm trying really hard not to go into Editor mode and look at the events unless there's a problem, but I had to investigate that one because I didn't believe my own eyes!

Thanks for the stock market tips - it's not usually my style so I needed that help.

[RulerofRails]

The requirement about not going through US is based upon reality. You can find details here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kettle_Valley_Railway. To paraphrase, there was political motivation to keep the Americans from "taking over" the mining in this area. Geographically the US has easier terrain. But the US would rather that traffic go south and off the map to Spokane. Politics.

The only way to get access to the US is by taking over an AI company that has access there. At month end there is a one-time event that forbids this access. I didn't edit this from the original (IIRC I added a time limit). If you takeover a second company with US access you can keep it for good.

[Grandma Ruth]

I sort of assumed that must be the case; it was obviously a deliberate event so I didn't post at the time, when it first happened to me. I was outraged! I had even built a station there I had no access to That bit of historic information might have been included somehow early on in the scenario.* I looked at the newspapers but nothing there about it.

By the way, the event that gives you a choice about having newspapers or not doesn't fire. I only saw them in the Editor and looked out of curiosity.

*I think the narrative should be like a good detective story - the hint, the clue, is there somewhere at the beginning so you can trace it back when the murderer is revealed. Like in one of the Agatha Christie books you are told, just in passing, that someone has lost a child due to Rubella and you think no more about it till the end, when it turns out this was the motive for the murder of the person that accidentally infected her all those years before.

[RulerofRails]

RT3 doesn't handle territory access as well as RTII did. The AI companies need rights there. But mergers can be done with the game paused and there is no way to detect instantly that a US company is gone. The soonest would be end of week. Or there could be an additional check for if your company has track pieces in US when track/station is placed. This would need another event. But it still wont fire until AFTER you exit the track or station build screen. That wouldn't have saved you from getting into trouble.

I feel like there is a lot of info for the player at the start of the game already. Maybe I can put a note at the bottom of the ledger for the first couple of years and also slap it on the end of one of the "briefings." Any suggestion on which briefing? I'm happy for any suggestion on a good "hint", those aren't my strong suit.


The newspapers are disabled at the moment. They only last for the first year or two. Also, the info contained is historic and maybe casually interesting, but it doesn't really help strategically. They are really detailed, JSS must have gotten them out of a book or maybe actual newspapers from the period. I'm no history buff, I'm not the one to try to come up with that many newspapers for the rest of the map. I'm also a little concerned that with too many more events the game could start doing weird things (this map is already pushing the limits). If someone who likes to wade through historical jabble wants to pick some out, I'm open. But remember there is some risk that it may be a waste of time. How things stand at the moment, IMO just having newspapers near the start of the game give an "unfinished" feel. That's why I turned them off.