NSW - North, south & west

Discussion about reviews and strategies for user created scenarios made for RT3 version 1.05 and earlier.
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Gumboots
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Re: Blue Mountains revamp Unread post

Lol. Umm, I just figured out that MicroDEM has some extra useful bits I hadn't used before. There's no need to try and do terrain painting for elevation manually. MicroDEM has an "Automatic chloropath palette" option under Modify > Elevation (the same window you use to select your DBF export tables). This gives a wide range of additional palettes for terrain, and the basic "Terrain 25 steps" is near perfect for RT3 purposes.

MicroDEM_auto_chloropath.jpg

The automatically gives an extremely good guide for cutting in rivers where you need them. If the map shows the same colour, that area is all in the same elevation range according to the actual DEM. It won't necessarily all be in the same elevation range when imported into RT3 though, because the default smoothing algorithm plays havoc with valleys sometimes. If you have a common situation where two side valleys for tributaries come into the main river valley, the smoothing algorithm will pull the main valley floor up as it tries to smooth the transition between the ridges on each side.

Valley_smoothing_problem.jpg

In that shot the lower parts of the main valley are roughly right for elevation, and it needs to be manually cut through at that height between the side ridges. Welcome to the traditional RT3 "Why haz my riverz got lumps in them?". ::!**!

For comparison here's the same valley from the same heightmap, with the only difference being that no smoothing was applied when importing into RT3 editor.

Same_valley_no_smoothing.jpg

The terrain is far more jagged but the heights through the valley, and for that matter over the peaks, are far more accurate when compared with the terrain elevation overlay. It just occurred to me that if you are using a smoothed import it could be worthwhile having an unsmoothed version for setting the lake tool for cutting valleys. You could load the unsmoothed version, set and write down a range of useful lake tool heights, then load the smoothed version and use the written heights as a guide for your terraforming. I can see this reducing the workload quite considerably. !*th_up*!

At least the problem will be easier to fix with a good visual guide to the correct elevation ranges. Use the lake tool, set height from one of the correct vertices, cut through the lumps with a temporary strip of lake, set back to land, lay in your river. (0!!0)

Also this should now be in the Map Creation and/or Scenario Writing board. Not sure which, but will probably move it later.
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Re: Blue Mountains revamp Unread post

w00t! I found an easy way of marking out rivers. It turns out that someone has made a gizmo called the Overpass Turbo API. This wonderful bit of trickery pulls data from OpenStreetMap.

The good thing here is that rivers are marked on the OpenStreetMap as shapes, and these can be exported individually via a very simple process (described here). It's actually not necessary to go through the entire rigmarole if you just want the lines for a bunch of rivers. The query to run will be the same in all cases, except the name of the river will change. You can literally just keep pasting in the name of the next river into the wizard and keep exporting them one after the other. The only caveat is that the river you want to export has to be visible in the Overpass Turbo window. I assume this is a safeguard against multiple features around the world having the same name. If it only exports the one you're looking at, it will be the right one.

Anyway, once you have downloaded the .geojson files they can be drag-and-dropped into QGIS. They are already georeferenced, so there are no worries about projections. They will automatically match DEM's perfectly. A screenshot of the river lines can then exported as a PNG image, which can be used as an overlay on top of any BMP you want to apply to a GMP. The result is that you can get a stack of rivers accurately marked out on your GMP with hardly any effort. Which totally rocks. (0!!0)

Instant_rivers_just_add_water.jpg

Oh yes, while I think of it, the river that runs between Lithgow and Katoomba is called Coxs River, and following it is the easiest way of getting through the Blue Mountains. The Aborigines had been using that route for thousands of years, but Europeans didn't know about it and didn't think to ask. So the new arrivals thought the Blue Mountains were an impassable barrier, while the locals were just merrily strolling back and forth through them without any problems. :lol:
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Re: Blue Mountains revamp Unread post

Tried a couple of experiments, taking a smoothed map and an unsmoothed one. I get the impression that which is going to be best will depend on the situation and the author's aims. This one has some pretty serious terrain, with significant rivers running through deep and narrow gorges. These are going to have an interesting effect, because they run through an area that on the original map was a total blockage to the economy. If they are cut in smoothly, downhill all the way, they will allow Tycoonatron cargo flow through otherwise impassable terrain. I'm not exactly sure what overall effect this will have, but my instincts are telling me it will be good.

I had a quick try at cutting in some of the gnarliest rivers on this map, and IMO it's definitely easier with the unsmoothed map. The advantage is that even through narrow gorges there will be some low vertices that are pretty close to the real height. They will be only vertices though, not map pixel squares, and a river needs a pixel square to run on. However, if you have accurate vertices available this means setting the lake tool to cut through anything is a quick and easy process. I cut in the Shoalhaven, Kangaroo and Wollondilly rivers in little time and with no drama at all. I even enjoyed it :shock: just because it works so well. The only catch was because it was an experiment I tried it on a sandbox rather than the game map itself, which means I have to do it all over again on the game map. *!*!*!

There are some other advantages with the unsmoothed map too. Katoomba is on a small plateau, and the default smoothing on import rounds off the edges so much that there's hardly any area left. If you start with the unsmoothed one you have scope for tweaking it to be more useful, which you really have to do with the smoothed one anyway.

So, thinking about how to approach this for best results vs minimum stress, I reckon the go is to approach it like this:

1/ Import unsmoothed map. Oh dear, it's seriously gnarly, but no problem.
2/ Decide which rivers are worth having on the map, make a guide overlay BMP, and cut them in.
3/ Make a guide overlay for railway lines too. Most of these are also available from the Turbo Overpass API, although due to naming inconsistencies getting complete routes is a bit more work than getting river lines.
4/ With the rivers cut in, and with the relevant railway lines marked out, a fairly quick romp around the map should see the necessary routes adequately smoothed without lumping up the terrain in the wrong places.
5/ The lumpiness on the rest of the map can be dealt with by the smoothing brush, preserving features you think are worth preserving and just mass smoothing the rest.

Doesn't sound too bad when I think of it this way. I reckon it'll work. !*th_up*!
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Re: Blue Mountains revamp Unread post

Have made some progress. Working on an unsmoothed map import is going well. The process is generally easy and pleasant, and the results are good.

I'm aiming to make the railways routes that were actually built smooth, but anyone who wants to go off piste will have to take their chances. Most of the map will get a general light smoothing to ensure the economy works well and the terrain looks decent, but there will be no guarantees about smoothness for rail. I quite like it this way, because if you do decide to do something different you won't know what to expect, so IMO it adds to the interest and challenge. :-D

With the layout and topography being more accurate there are some inevitable changes compared to the original. The run from Campbelltown to Moss Vale, via Picton and Mittagong, now looks like this. Note that there is still work to be done on rivers and on route smoothing between Campbelltown and Picton, but Picton to Moss Vale is sorted. The grades are steeper than the original map but still perfectly usable.

Campbelltown-Moss-Vale.jpg

In real life the South coast Line runs through the Hacking River gorge, before doing all sorts of cliff-hugging trickery and tunnels at weird angles between Stanwell Park and Wollongong. I've now made it match the real thing, as far as is reasonable within RT3's limits (Stanwell Park is just a temporary marker, and won't be on the finished map).

The other line of interest down that way is the Unanderra-Moss Vale line. This wasn't built until the 1920's, but is included because a/ it's one of the gnarliest bits of line in the country and b/ it provides an alternative route to Wollongong to match the old map. Unlike the old map you will have to deal with the sorts of grades that it has in real life (adjusted for RT3, of course). It'll be fine running freight down from Goulburn, but will require light loads out of Wollongong on the way back.

Illawarra.jpg

The northern line from Sydney to Newcastle has been dealt with in a similar manner to the southern line. The famous Sydney Harbour Bridge didn't exist in this timeframe, and the harbour was bridged with a more modest structure further upstream. The line then runs through Hornsby and Berowra, before dropping down to the rail bridge at the Hawkesbury River. There are several tunnels at weird places north and south of the river (including directly at each end of the bridge) but for RT3 purposes one tunnel from the head of Mullet Creek to Gosford is a good approximation.

Northern.jpg

Then we have the Blue Mountains. The topography here is substantially different to the old map, so Glenbrook will be removed and will be replaced with Lawson for better spacing between stations. Either that or I'll remove Springbrook and keep Glenbrook (not completely sure yet). The track from Penrith to Katoomba is steep but workable. From Katoomba the track goes through several tunnels on the way to Lithgow, but one is enough for RT3. Note that this one has to be built from the north back to Katoomba to lay properly, but if you lay it in that direction it's fine.

Penrith-Katoomba.jpg

The line into Lithgow makes sense now. The line west and north from Lithgow also makes sense now, but again it's another big change from the original ATBM map. It now does what the real track does, and once over the Coxs River it splits into two branches: one heading west to Bathurst and the other heading north to Mudgee. Gulgong wasn't connected in this timeframe, and Kandos didn't exist at all, so they will be replaced with two towns that were on this line in the 19th century: Capertree and Rylstone.

There's an additional town between Bathurst and Orange too. Blayney is on the western line and was a natural stopping point between Bathurst and Orange, as well as being the northern end of the Demondrille line (which will be included later).

Western.jpg
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Re: Blue Mountains revamp Unread post

It just occurred to me that the NSWGR numbering system helpfully provides a guide to how rail was developing in this period, which may be useful for tweaking scenario scripting. What they did was name each class after the road number of the first in the class, with locomotives on the separate northern (Newcastle) network being numbered separately from the southern (Sydney) units. The northern ones ones were given an "N" suffix, so the 1 Class was a Sydney class and the 1N Class was a Newcastle class.

The Sydney network started with the 1 Class, which was four mixed traffic 0-4-2's in 1855. They got a fifth in 1856, which had detail differences so was designated the 5 Class. They also got two dedicated express locos in the same year: the 6 Class 2-2-2 (road numbers 6 and 7). This tells me that while starting with mixed traffic locos was obviously sensible, within a year they had already decided that they needed dedicated express haulers more than they needed dedicated freight haulers. So the scenario should develop express traffic fairly rapidly in the early years, which is an easy thing to arrange by event (temporary pax production increase).

The Newcastle network opened in 1857. The 1N Class was the same as the Sydney 1 Class, and it started with four locomotives in that class (road numbers 1N to 4N). So if playing for realism you wouldn't build anything at Newcastle for the first two game years. It may be worth scripting a separate territory to enforce this, as early haulage down the flat Hunter Valley terrain is often a good start in RT3. On the other hand having an 1857 northern opening enforced by scripting will reduce replay value, so may not be a good thing.

In 1858 the Sydney network got the 8 Class, which was a single 2-2-2 well tank unit. Obviously short haul express traffic was becoming even more important around Sydney. By this stage Sydney had five mixed traffic locos and three express locos, while Newcastle had four mixed traffic locos. The Sydney line reached Campbelltown in this year, while the Newcastle line still didn't go past Maitland.

The NSWGR stuck with the above locomotives (12 units in total, for both networks) until 1861. In that year five more locomotives were introduced, and they were all dedicated express units. The 9 Class 2-2-2 (this beastie) was the same unit as the 5N Class, with three going to Sydney and one going to Newcastle. Sydney also got the 12 Class 2-2-2 well tank, which was a slight variant of the 8 Class. This brings Sydney up to five locos for mixed traffic and seven locos for express (five for longer hauls, and two suburban tanks) so clearly express was the majority of traffic in the Sydney area by 1861, while in Newcastle it wasn't as important but was becoming a factor.

After this nothing changes until 1863, when the Newcastle network received the 6N Class 4-4-0T (road numbers 6N and 7N). These were the first dedicated freight units on the NSWGR, for short haul mining traffic. At the time there were coal mines around Newcastle itself, and it wasn't necessary to go far up the river to get coal (the line only reached Singleton in this year anyway) but Newcastle had been exporting coal since the late 1700's and it was a major part of the economy by the mid 19th century. It's unusual that these units were 4-4-0T's, bearing in mind that these were a UK design for low speed short haul freight and 4-4-0's weren't a UK thing at the time. It may say something about the quality of the track around the collieries, since the 4-4-0 was introduced in the US largely because it could follow poorly laid track. Sydney got the 13 Class 2-4-0 in the same year, indicating they had enough express capacity for the moment and wanted more mixed traffic capability. This was also the year when the Sydney line reached Penrith.

The only deliveries in 1864 all went to Newcastle. There was one express unit: the 8N Class, which was a sort of mutant 5N. There were also two 0-6-0 saddle tank grunters: the 9N Class. As 0-6-0ST's they would have been colliery/dockside units, so short haul freight is still the predominant haulage in the Newcastle area.



In 1865 the Sydney crew started getting serious about crossing the Blue Mountains. The line from Penrith to Glenbrook didn't actually open until 1867, but they were clearly planning ahead and knew they would need some real hauling ability. The southern line extension to Picton and Goulburn was also being planned at this stage, and that meant long hauls and grades too. So, in 1865 Sydney received another seventeen locomotives, more than doubling its existing roster in one hit.

Two of these were the 14 Class 2-2-2, an express choof noted for hitting 70 mph occasionally (even though they weren't really supposed to). These were used on the flatter area around Sydney itself, particularly the Penrith run. The next nine units were the 17 Class 0-6-0, the first dedicated freight grunters on the Sydney network. Six went to Sydney, and three went to Newcastle as the 11N Class (more of these were delivered to both networks in later years).

Sydney also received nine 2-4-0's: the 23 Class. It seems the single unit in the 1863 13 Class had been a trial run for a future order of 2-4-0's. Apparently the 23 Class were mainly used for passenger traffic on lines which didn't suit the 2-2-2's. They turned out to be a bit short of grunt over the Blue Mountains line, once it opened, so another four of the class were ordered with slightly smaller driving wheels in 1869 (the year in which Lithgow and Goulburn were connected).

After this things developed fairly normally until the mid 1870's, with both Sydney and Newcastle receiving a mix of locos that was slanted towards freight. For RT3 purposes the locos involved weren't significant.



The next big change came in 1877. By 1877 the Newcastle line was heading for Tamworth, Orange had been connected, and the southern line was down to Cootamundra. It had also been decided that the NSWGR was going all the way out to Bourke, to steal the lucrative Darling River trade that was going to Victoria and South Australia (at the time the colonies didn't think of themselves as one country, and were very competitive little mongrels). All of this meant more locos and better ones were needed, so they went and got them.

26 of the Class 79 4-4-0's arrived on the docks in Sydney, with four of them going to Newcastle as 27N-30N. They liked them so much that another 38 units were delivered over the next few years: 30 to Sydney and 8 to Newcastle. From looking at the plans for the 79 Class and the 23 Class it's clear the 79 Class is basically the smaller driving wheels version of the 23 Class, but with the two wheel front truck changed for a four wheel truck. My guess is a lot of the parts came from the exact same castings. The 79 class became the leading NSWGR express locos over the next decade.

In 1877 the NSWGR also decided to trial 2 Baldwin 4-4-0's (NSWGR 105 Class, Baldwin designation 8-30). They must have thought it was ok because a third one arrived in 1879, but no more were ordered. It may simply have been that by now they had enough express capability on the tracks and already ordered, so didn't see the need for more Baldwins. 1877 also saw the introduction of the 93 Class 0-6-0's. They got 50 of those, which turned out to be so good that they got another 30 later. Half of them were still in service 50 years later, and two kept running until 1972.

For a 25 year scenario starting in 1855 the last year of play is 1879, when the NSWGR finally got around to trying out Connies. (0!!0)
They got 11 Connies from Baldwin, which were the standard 10-34 production model of the time. Connies would be a nice last year addition to the scenario (although everyone would probably be grumbling about not getting them earlier).



If anyone wants to know, for the 1880's they apparently went nuts on Moguls. No idea why, but they got stacks of the things in four different classes: 70 units from Beyer Peacock and 30 from Baldwin. They also got another 60 4-4-0's (not the 79 Class) and a couple of other odds and ends.
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Re: Blue Mountains revamp Unread post

That's quite a bit of history there. Is there a correlation between population and number of trains they were using?
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Re: Blue Mountains revamp Unread post

Must be I suppose, but I haven't checked population figures. TBH that was deliberate, because I got into that while doing the Latvia scenario and ended up rescripting the whole thing from scratch. I thought this time around I wouldn't worry about it, on the basis that the existing building densities for each city work well for overall gameplay and maybe I should give the OCD a miss. !*th_up*!

It will probably need some tweaking here and there. The greater map width and often steeper grades have me thinking that with the slow locos available it would make sense to have a 20% range increase by default (ie: -17% water, sand and oil consumption, so 1/0.83 = 1.2) and the rail allowances should probably be increased 10% to balance track units against average distances. It may also benefit from a moderate reduction to bridge and/or tunnel cost, but the overall cities and economy should transfer across without much in the way of problems. If the greater land area means too many resources seed to keep the original balance, I'll just reduce overall building density and adjust city sliders to keep the same number of buildings over time in the cities. There are only a few city recipes anyway (very simple setup) so adjusting things won't be an issue.
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Re: Blue Mountains revamp Unread post

Well, after doing this one I think I can say I have totally got the hang of the RT3 rivers and terraforming tools. It has also given me a good feel for how many wildly tricky rivers I can put on a map before I start thinking it'd be more fun to do something else. Turns out it's about how many are on this map. Now I know. !*th_up*!

Looking at the way the Hunter River goes on the way to Muswellbrook, and given the topography would require a very winding route along the river, you might be thinking that for RT3 you'd just say "#&*$! it" and cross the river at Singleton, before heading cross country to Muswellbrook. This is actually what the main line does in real life. The blokes who built it had the same thoughts. :mrgreen:

Rivers.jpg
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Re: Blue Mountains revamp Unread post

This is going well. Rivers are all done (yay!) and the terrain has been sorted to get rid of the extreme jaggedness.
Events have been transferred across from the original map to the new one, including changes for haulage to Yass instead of Queanbeyan.

Found a good trick here. You can have two separate installations of RT3 running at the same time. Everybody else probably knew this. *!*!*!
Anyway, it means copy/pasting event dialogues and newspapers from one map to another is a piece of cake. It obviously also makes checking event conditions easy (as long as you remember which window you're looking at). The only things left to do now are paint in the relevant economic regions and add the rest of the cities, which I will do tonight. As soon as those details are done it will be ready for a test run.

I expect overall seeding density might need a reduction (greater land area might mean too much in the way of resources). I also suspect the original's track cost increase of 10% will be unnecessary. This map will easily chew up 10% more track to meet the goals anyway, so track cost will automatically be at least 10% higher than the original. Track allowances will probably need a 10% increase too. And of course the port recipe will be changed to do a coal/steel conversion instead of just supplying iron.

Possible other tweaks:

1/ The original has a 20% reduction in production of logs at the 15 year mark (easily accessible forests logged out). I might ditch this event and just slightly increase the other logs reduction events. Either that or possibly have two forest regions, with the one close to Sydney being "logged out".

2/ At the moment I haven't transferred the Alcohol, etc "bonus events" to the new map because I never found they added anything to the game, so wanted to give them some more thought. One was broken anyway (fuel cost by event doesn't work) and there are doubts about the logic of another.

Oh yes, satellite shots. Have thought about adding one, but there's an obvious catch. There ain't no 1865 satellite shots available. All their steam-powered satellites must have crashed or something. The problem is that land use and land cover have changed quite dramatically since the mid-19th century, so a 2019 satellite shot isn't going to be an accurate representation of the period. I could guesstimate the changes (have tried finding old land cover maps but have not had much luck) and then play around with Photoshoppery on the satellite shot, but at the moment I'm tossing up whether that is worth it and thinking maybe it's better to just paint this one is the editor. Terrain painting seems to work perfectly now that dgVoodoo graphics are a thing.
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Re: Blue Mountains revamp Unread post

I suppose you could include the co-ordinates so that if someone is bothered they can try to make their own sat or whatever imagery.

In terms of balancing the map, changing up the geography (more lumpy overall) and more rivers? will likely have a bigger impact than the change in scaling. You might find that less buildings seed in the mountainous regions than before. If you didn't remember, there is a page past the events in the editor that shows how many buildings of each type are currently on the map. For an idea (cause of the random) you could compare these numbers with the original.

Multiple instances? Yes. Since I started doing something with SCBC (I was trying Railroad Corporation game which is in early access so have been slacking on tweaks to the track quota I talked about) I have been running in windowed mode. And typically I will have an in-progress game where I mock up the events for testing, and the actually map file where I fix the more general bugs as I go and later will transpose the finalized new sequences. What I did was set the MASTER one to slightly smaller resolution so I would be less likely to mix them up.
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Re: Blue Mountains revamp Unread post

Yep, I know about that page in the editor and was thinking of using it as one of the checks. !*th_up*! Good point about the terrain though.

Just ran some numbers through a spreadsheet, taking straight line distances in map pixels between Sydney and a range of cities, Newcastle and a range of cities, and the same for Bathurst and for Wollongong. Distances are averaging 22% greater than the old map, with numbers varying from 0.971 (Sydney => Lithgow) to 1.764 (Bathurst => Lithgow). Some relevant ones are:

Sydney => Bathurst: 1.136
Sydney => Campbelltown: 1.266
Sydney => Liverpool: 1.120
Sydney => Newcastle: 1.333
Sydney => Orange: 1.123
Sydney => Wellington: 1.181
Sydney => Wollongong: 1.245
Sydney => Yass: 1.121 (vs Sydney => Queanbeyan, with Yass substituting for Queanbeyan on the new map)

Wollongong => Goulburn: 1.166
Wollongong => Nowra: 1.302

Newcastle => Cessnock: 1.570
Newcastle => Maitland: 1.295
Newcastle => Muswellbrook: 1.267

So it's looking like a 20% increase to track allowances will be about right. If set like that a Newcastle start will still be penalised a bit compared to the original. This is good as it tends to favour a Sydney start (historical and all that) which will offset the common advantage of Newcastle for early haulage and provide a bit more challenge. The new map has Singleton as an intermediate city between Maitland and Muswellbrook, which makes early haulage in that area easier, but I always play with a halfway station because haulage down the river is good and I know there are stations there.

With track allowances increased 20% a Sydney start might be a little too easy, given the numbers above, but that can be tweaked by not providing any track at all extending from the placed Sydney station. TBH I find it a nuisance anyway, because it's always a bit off for alignment when you want to get past the end of the Parramatta River. Better if you just get the station and can run your own track. !*th_up*!

And definitely remove the 10% overall track cost increase. Will see how it goes with default track cost, pending testing. The 20% range increase I was thinking about earlier also seems like a definite now.
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Re: Blue Mountains revamp Unread post

Got it set up and running, and gave it a few quick and basic tests. It'll need some tweaking, mainly for the effects of terrain. I'll see if I can smooth it a bit more without making it too blancmange. I like the terrain the way it is, so really don't want to turn it into an AI-proof blob. I think with a little bit more smoothing and some tweaking of regions and recipes it will all work. It does tend to seed too many industries, so overall building density needs to come down a tad, but apart from that it looks like it's in the ballpark.

Edit: Made some changes, and it seems to work pretty well now. Terrain height has been reduced 85% of what it was, and frankly it looks better now. The result is that farms, etc have much better chance of seeding anywhere but terrain is still fun and interesting.

Seeding is in the ballpark when compared to a range of seeds on the original map. Might make a couple more minor tweaks, but it's pretty much where it needs to be. Overall building density is down to 75%, with city densities boosted to keep the same number of houses and other buildings in cities. This gives a few more rural producers compared to the original, but more widely spaced. Factory count is up quite significantly, but operating off a similar resource base should mean they aren't problematic. If testing shows a need for a slight reduction in them, that's easily arranged.

Initial track allowance is up to 160 track units. This was necessary to allow similar starts to the original. With the original map's 100 track units you can just do Sydney => Parramatta => Penrith (or Windsor) or Sydney => Liverpool => Campbelltown, or you can do Newcastle => Maitland => Cessnock at the start. The revamp required an initial allowance of 160 units to allow the same starts as the original map. Yearly base allowance is increased to 130 units pending testing, with bonuses increased to 65 units. I was getting the feeling a 20% increase might not be enough (greater distance + more thinly seeded resources = less chance of bonuses) but if 30% is too much I'll wind it back a bit.

Locomotive oil sand and water usage has been reduced 30% as I think it will need that to make things workable with slow locomotives.
I may add an option for reduced load/unload time if you meet some specific goal, or in exchange for an increase in company overhead.

Re satellite shots: I think I can fudge it. What actually looks pretty good from a rough trial is taking a sat shot and blending it a bit with the chloropath terrain shading, along with a few tweaks to brightness/contrast/saturation. I can fudge the 19th century look by patching in green bits over current suburban bits (shouldn't be hard). I'll run a test on that later. !*th_up*!
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Re: Blue Mountains revamp Unread post

Haven't got much further with this. I got sidetracked into thinking what locomotives it needs. I could easily set it to standard 1.05 locos, with or without custom stats, but having got into it that doesn't feel right. So, I think I'll have to make suitable smoky critters to go with the map. Ain't nothing else for it. :lol:

Having given it some thought, I reckon what it needs is this lot:

1/ Obviously has to start with the 1 Class 0-4-2 in 1855. I need a reason to finish it anyway.

2/ The 8 Class 2-2-2WT in 1858, for early express. This is about when express in the Sydney area starts building up in the original scenario.

3/ 6N Class 4-4-0T, maybe in 1863, when it arrived in real life. For more even spacing of locos I might cheat it to 1861.
Since it's a tank I can double head it without having to jump through RT3 hoops. Set a second one as the tender. Done.
The NSWGR did double head whenever it was necessary, so it's sort of historically accurate. It will allow having something with speed and hauling power to match a Connie, but in the early 1860's. The catch is that it will cost a lot more to buy and run, so won't be suitable for use all over the place, but as a special use/bit of added interest/oh-heck-I'm-desperate-to-meet-this-year's-haulage-quota it should be worth having.

4/ 1865 brings the 14 Class 2-2-2 for express, 17 Class 0-6-0 for freight, and the 23 Class 2-4-0 for pax up hills and a bit of mixed.
Although the 23 Class came in two lumps (1865 and 1869) so I may leave it until 1869, again for more even spacing of locos.

5/ 48 Class 0-6-0, which was introduced in 1874 (perfect for the freight weight change in 1875) and was a real heavy hauler (almost as strong as a Connie, in terms of basic tractive effort rating) but slow due to being a 0-6-0 (no stability at high speeds).

6/ 79 Class 4-4-0 in 1877 for express. This is much the same unit as the 23 Class, but upgraded, so I can model and skin them together.

7/ Connie in 1879, which is when the NSWGR first got some. Bit of a last year boost, for anyone who needs it. !*th_up*!

This would give a pretty balanced bunch, distinct and useful in their own niches. Adding more would make for some duplicates. It gives a nice balance in terms of builders and history too. Two Wilsons (8 and 6N classes), three Stephenson's (1, 17 and 48 classes), three Beyer Peacock's (14, 23 and 79 classes) and a Baldwin (Connie, of course). I'll get them roughed out and running as soon as I can.
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Gumboots
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Re: Blue Mountains revamp Unread post

Have been beta testing this thing and playing around with the event scripting. It's at the stage where it'll be worth putting out as a public beta soon, probably next weekend. Seems to play very nicely.

Still don't have the full range of NSWGR locomotives to go with it, but some existing ones are pretty good stand-ins for the moment.
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Gumboots
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Re: Blue Mountains revamp Unread post

Got something figured out about how a .gmp can get station names locked into its hex coding. !*th_up*!
Earlier conversations about it were around these posts:
viewtopic.php?f=86&t=4216&p=45720&hilit=hex#p45720
viewtopic.php?f=86&t=4216&hilit=hex&start=90#p45707
viewtopic.php?f=86&t=4216&hilit=hex&start=80#p45695

For this latest map, for some reason the .gmp hasn't got build dates for test stations locked into the hex, unlike the Latvia map, but it does still have station names locked into the hex: Blayney New Junction and Bathurst Modern Crossing.

These two cities ended up with stacks of stations attributed to them, because early in the map building process I was placing trial stations all over it while Bathurst and Blayney were the only two actual cities on the map. These trial stations were all bulldozed before saving the WIP map as a .gmp, which seems to have wiped out the build dates (again, unlike the Latvia map) as the hex for those is clear.

Anyway, we already knew that the byte 244 places before the city name recorded if a station had previously been built in that city. I've now also figured out how it works for the byte 240 places before the city name, and the byte 228 places before the city name.

The list of station names works like this:

Code: Select all

    ;@gumbootz: Secondary station names.
    578 "Junction"
    579 "Crossing"
    580 "Depot"
    581 "Corners"
    582 "Exchange"
    583 "Point"
    584 "Center"
    585 "Township"
    
    ;@gumbootz: Secondary station prefixes (for repeats of above).
    586 "New"
    587 "Modern"
    ;@gumbootz: End secondary stations.
    ;@gumbootz: Reverts to city name for 28th station, repeats from there.

    ;@gumbootz: Next string appears to be deprecated.
    588 "Renaissance"
Bathurst has 02 at the -244 position, and 02 at the -240 position. This tallies with the list of suffixes, since the secondary name "Crossing" is #2 on its list, and the prefix "Modern" is #2 on that list. Bathurst has the building style set to Victorian, which is coded as 05 according to Milo's notes. This tallies with its byte value of 05 for the -228 position.

Blayney has 01 at the -244 position, and 01 at the -240 position. This tallies with the list of suffixes, since the secondary name "Junction" is #1 on its list, and the prefix "New" is #1 on that list. Blayney has the building style set to Clapboard, which is coded as 00 according to Milo's notes. This tallies with its byte value of 00 for the -228 position.

All the other cities on the map are set to either Clapboard or Victorian building styles, and sure enough they all have either 00 or 05 at the -228 position. None of the other cities had test stations built in them, so their hex for station names is all clear (00 byte values).

With both Bathurst and Blayney each having the same values for bytes -244 and -240 (ie: 02 and 02 for Bathurst, and 01 and 01 for Blayney) it's difficult to be sure which byte relates to the secondary names and which to the prefix, but logically I'd expect them to be in the same order as in the RT3.lng file. So 01 at -244 and 00 at -240 would mean the next station built would be **** Junction, which which tallies with what I found during testing on the Latvia map (I was getting Riga Junction, etc, but no "New" in the middle, and had only placed one or two test stations per actual city).

So I think we have this sorted now, and know how to edit the hex for station names. (0!!0)
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Gumboots
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Re: Blue Mountains revamp Unread post

RoR and I have been working on this and testing it behind the scenes (ie: lotsa PM ranting). I'd rather get it to the point where it's looking as good as it can get for scripting before I let it loose on an unsuspecting public. It's going well, and should be good enough for a public beta soon. I think I can get it sorted to that stage this week (yes, I know I have said that before *!*!*! ).

Will also have the beginnings of a corresponding locomotive pack to go with it: 1 Class for mixed traffic, 8 Class for express, and 6N class for freight. These only dealt with the 1855-1865 period in real life, but are actually good enough to play the whole scenario right through if you don't mind a bit of a challenge. Am on a roll with NSWGR locomotives though, so the rest of the pack shouldn't be that far away.

Alternatively it's perfectly playable with default PopTop locomotives, although not as realistic and IMO not as much fun. I'll enable the most suitable ones by default, with the NSWGR pack being optional. !*th_up*!
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Gumboots
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Re: Blue Mountains revamp Unread post

Started playing around with throwing on satellite shots.

Throwing on satellite shots is easy. The tricky bit is getting the mongrels to look good around coastlines. The rest of the map is no problem at all, but coastlines always looks dodgey if they're not nearly perfect. I'm gonna try a few more tricks.
Rough_satshot_test.jpg
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Gumboots
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Re: Blue Mountains revamp Unread post

Ok, so I tried getting tricky. It doesn't work. *!*!*!

The bottom line is: get the satellite shot as good as you can in Photoshop (or GIMP or whatever), then fix the coasts with manual painting in the RT3 editor. It's the only way that really makes sense.
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Gumboots
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Re: Blue Mountains revamp Unread post

Dragged this out for more testing the other night. It's good, but I think it needs a bit more tweaking. I'm contemplating making credit/bonds harder to get, with a more finely-tuned sliding scale of credit rating vs number of bonds taken out. Off the top of my head I thought something like this might work:

Code: Select all

Bonds amount    Max. rating     Reduction       Cumulative      Variable
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
0-$2 million        AAA              0                0             N/A
$2-$3 million        AA             -1               -1             CV1
$3-$4 million       BBB             -2               -3             CV2
$4 million +        CCC             -3               -6             CV3     Cannot take out bonds at lower rating.
Additionally, could have CV4 tracking economy state, and adding or subtracting credit rating accordingly.
So normal economy = no change to the above scale. Prosperity = +1. Boom = +2 (allows BB rating @ $4 million +).
And recession = -1. Depression = -2 (would drop maximum credit rating to C for debt over $4 million).

Code: Select all

Economy state   Max. rating @ zero debt     Difference      Cumulative      Variable
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Booming                         AAA             +1               +2             CV4
Prosperity                      AAA             +1               +1             CV4
Normal                          AAA             +0               +0             CV4
Recession                        AA             -1               -1             CV4
Depression                        A             -1               -2             CV4
This would make things harder early in the game, when you're often on the limit of your credit rating anyway. Taking 1 or 2 off the rating in the early years will mean you'd have to build up your company before you could access more than a couple of million in bonds.

This would mean you would still be able to jack up bonds if you did them quickly, between event test intervals. There is no provision for checking when a bond is taken out, and weekly is the strictest possible testing, so you could still take out a stack of bonds at a low interest rate with the game on pause. This is going to be an obvious exploit in practice. Build up credit rating > pay off bonds as much as possible > wait for credit rating to reset to best available > pause game > grab as many bonds as you can at the lowest possible rate > hold bonds when rating resets and don't worry about it. I can't see a way to prevent this exploit without preventing bonds entirely. But this scheme should still place some restrictions on rampant use of bonds.
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RulerofRails
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Re: Blue Mountains revamp Unread post

Nice scale. The exploit for taking out a lot of bonds at once is a bit of let down. You could possibly penalize a player if he ran up more than two bonds at once. Make it something that the player can't workaround. For example, maybe he crashes the economy (maybe even this is exploitable in rare cases). Or (safer) drop cargo pricing/production or severe ramp in his maintenance expenses until he pays it back. Downside .... this feels a bit artifical and gimmicky.


It's a shame we can't check the current credit rating for the player. However, this could be approximated. (I haven't really tried to check for a forumla behind credit rating so it's an approximation.)

Have a couple variables that will contribute to credit rating decreasing and/or prime rate increasing over time. For the most part this can be culminative (I would only step it back if the player made a loss that year). The obvious check would be CBV vs. year. I didn't review company growth rate on this map for awhile, but as an example. It could increment each time CBV grows by more than $1M in a year. In addition have some specific checks for fine-tuning such as IF CBV crosses $2M in less than 3 years from game start, increment the rate. If CBV crosses $3M in less than 5 years. If CBV crosses $5M in less than 7 years. Those are just examples.

If you want to go down this route I can help with tuning it for best results. This should work alongside your scale for the economy.
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