Gilligan's Isle - Beta

[Hawk]

This map is now available in the Archives.

http://hawkdawg.com/rrt/rrt3/map_arch/r ... gansIsland

[Hawk]

Uhm? Slight problem.

I've loaded the map 3 times and get the same thing. This is the version I just added to the archives.

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Edit 1: I think I found the problem. This map seems to require a default install of RT3 1.06 to get the Firefly. Apparently my regular install of 1.06 isn't default, as far as engines go. I loaded a default install from a backup and got the Firefly.

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Edit 2: This probably isn't necessary cause you've most likely already figured it out, but I've attached a spreadsheet showing the locos and tenders in the Default Install (which is what I used to get the Firefly) and my General Play Install (which is where I got the E60CP).
The extra engines in the General Play Install moved the Firefly down some, so I'm guessing the game loaded the E60CP by engine number in the game instead of Engine name from the editor.

Engines.xls

(38.5 KiB) Downloaded 258 times

I'm not sure if that can be adjusted for or not. This may explain the problem mentioned by Wolvy and Ray earlier in this topic, or at least shed some light on it somehow.
If you'll notice, there's seven engines extra in the General Play Install, compared to the Default Install, before the E60CP. Then there's another extra engine between the E60CP and the Firefly.
There's seven engines between the E60CP and the Firefly. It looks like it's an engine number issue taking precedent over the naming of the locos in the editor.
With others getting different engines, it could be due to whatever they have installed, changing the numbering of the locos.

Does that make sense?

Course that doesn't explain Ray getting the Hudson, unless he's missing some engines.

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Edit 3: For whatever it's worth I just checked the beta version of this map and got the same engine selections on the two versions of 1.06.

[Gumboots]

That's weird, because the game calls locomotives by their in-game name, not by their ID number. Yes, have checked this more than once, including in the .gmp hex coding itself. It's the reason why Lirio's loco "update pack" borked loco availability in existing maps.

[Hawk]

Huh? That is weird. I guess you checked out that spreadsheet and saw what I was talking about. I reckon my assumption was all wrong.
Dern! I thought I had it figured out.

It's the reason why Lirio's loco "update pack" borked loco availability in existing maps.

Refresh my memory. What did Lirio do again?

[RulerofRails]

This issue and the one I had with the cargoes on Canyonlands map (my fault entirely because I had extra "cargoes" that I thought were disabled by renaming), to me point towards this being an issue with the alphabetical order of the filenames and not the in-game name (not saying that there are no problems with those, just that this seems different at this point).

I tried the map and with my default 1.06 the Firefly appears. An install with extra engines returned the E428. Obviously I don't have the same engines installed as Hawk but that's beside the point.

I checked out the events and this map uses an event to set the Firefly's availability since it has long been retired. I fiddled a little and took a look at the gmp hex for the particular event that sets loco availability but couldn't understand it (maybe Gumboots will know?). It doesn't contain the loco name from what I can see.

Seems that the in-game lists involving engines and goods are recording the Location of that object in the list and then recording that instead of actually calling the loco/cargo name that they display (the loco event looks right in both installs, but the cargo events didn't, dunno why???).

Who knows if there's a way around this issue? Worst case scenario, the map could include custom engine files. There are some drawbacks, but lets see if a better method comes up in the next bit. I don't have much more time for this right now unfortunately.

BTW, Gumboots congratulations on 2,000 posts!

[Gumboots]

Huh? That is weird. I guess you checked out that spreadsheet and saw what I was talking about. I reckon my assumption was all wrong.
Dern! I thought I had it figured out.

It's the reason why Lirio's loco "update pack" borked loco availability in existing maps.

Refresh my memory. What did Lirio do again?

Nope, I didn't look at the spreadsheet. I was just going from your post.

Lirio changed some of the in-game names for some locos, which borked availability. Loco ID numbers and other coding names were not changed, so the borking had to be down to the changing the in-game name. Couldn't be anything else.

[Gumboots]

I checked out the events and this map uses an event to set the Firefly's availability since it has long been retired. I fiddled a little and took a look at the gmp hex for the particular event that sets loco availability but couldn't understand it (maybe Gumboots will know?). It doesn't contain the loco name from what I can see.

I don't know about special events for loco availability after the game has started. Haven't looked into those. You may have found a brand new bug there. Congratulations.

I know the basic availability list (or loco selection if you want to call it that) that is set before the game starts depends on the in-game name of the locomotive. You can see the list of names in the hex by following Milo's notes for the .gmp file.

[OilCan]

The firefly riddle is beyond me. As I stated earlier, I have no clue why this particular game has such a glitch. It looks like it is unsolvable.

I think that maybe the best thing to do with this particular game map is to post a notice in the map archive saying that there is sometimes an inexplicable glitch with the type of engines which appear in the game. This lets the player know in advance that the firefly may not appear as planned.

The game should play just fine with different engines than the ones intended for the game.

[Hawk]

The firefly riddle is beyond me. As I stated earlier, I have no clue why this particular game has such a glitch. It looks like it is unsolvable.

I think that maybe the best thing to do with this particular game map is to post a notice in the map archive saying that there is sometimes an inexplicable glitch with the type of engines which appear in the game. This lets the player know in advance that the firefly may not appear as planned.

The game should play just fine with different engines than the ones intended for the game.

The problem with that idea is that you can't buy any other engine due to how much money you have and how much the engines cost. As Ray mentioned, he got the Hudson and it costs $2750., whereas Wolvy got the Farlie. I guess he could buy that. And I got the E60CP, which cost $4950., and I also would have had to run electric track, which would be a little out of character for this map.

I think a better note in the archives should state that this map needs to be played on a version of 1.06 without any additional engines added.

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Edit 1: I tried setting up a new event to disable diesel and electric locos but it didn't help. I still got the E60CP. Course I may have set it up wrong.

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Edit 2: For now I've added this to the description.

This map requires a default 1.06 install. Any extra engines installed may cause this map to not work right.

[RayofSunshine]

Well Everyone,
since this is a "fix" or up date", which ever you want to call it, this time from the Archive Download, I got the Consolidated have a purchase price of (I think) approx $1247. Then came the Duke, $770, and within the last 4 years the Zepher, I believe at $980. So I just used the cheat "subsidy" for engine purchases, just to see if there were any other problems.

I did get Silver @276 points, and just could not get the "troops" to "move their butts". Depots had 3.6 to 5.6 generally, but 1 with 10, but would not load. I finally tried to "cure the problem" was to get the depots to send "alcohol and troops" to one another, and finally was able to at least get to the Hideout. However, I was back to the grind, as Bora had 24 toops, who didn't want to go to war. There were more troops on the way from the other 3 depots, but the distance was too great to get to the Hideout.

Even with the problems in question, I as usual had a lot of fun with the challenges, which are the norm for OilCan.

[OilCan]

For now I've added this to the description.

This map requires a default 1.06 install. Any extra engines installed may cause this map to not work right.

Thanks Hawk.

[Hawk]

I hope it helps.

[RayofSunshine]

Maybe someone can explain the reason for my problem.

I have tried a number of different ways to get the "troops off their ass". Even tried to get them moving by sending alcohol to the depot, as it is a "demand". Nothing. Just think the troops get drunk. I did get some results, but takes too long, to send alcohol and troops, but that took even longer. Even waited a number of months to see if that helped. Very little, and it took more than months for even 4 troops, when there are 3 to 7 "standing by".

Being the the Barracks demand a "to/from" demand, I would believe that any troops "standing by" would "hop" on the first train, headed to a depot with a barracks.

Really enjoyed a couple of times of playing, but this problem does make for some frustration. Otherwise,

[RulerofRails]

I played this map and it's a unique map design where the challenge isn't financial. I like it. I like the fact that one must complete all tasks in addition to getting most of the haulage points available to win the scenario. On the first attempt I finished with months to spare. Not reading the first location for Troop deliveries didn't help.

The reliability of the Firefly with the heavy late era cars is an interesting strategic point in this one. Until I had replaced all Firefly's with Dukes, I virtually bought a new one every month. Whenever I needed a new engine for a new route I bought that, otherwise every Firefly 3 years or older was a candidate for replacement. I didn't use cabooses. The pulling power seems the best upgrade.

For Ray of Sunshine,
I bungled with the Troops by initially sending them to Watubi Village. This wasn't good for the goals but may have had a side effect of priming the market. Watubi Village is the logical hub for Troop exchanges between trains so good for priming, but it was a wrong move. I wasn't trying to prime Troop production. Attempts to prime the market do help to get overall volume up. They are great when playing maps with high express traffic. On this one, I tend to think that it's a waste of time. But that's mainly an assumption. I am not sure if I will create special trains to haul Troops amongst the other cities once I have the initial routes in the future.

Next time I would make 2 trains of high-priority, "Any Express" consist setup on the route between each city with a barracks and the destination. By the time I got the Troop challenge I had a stockpile of spare track units. I used some of this stockpile to provide special double-tracked routes for these trains which will then be free from most other traffic and hopefully more direct point-to-point will help a lot. If it's impossible to make the new route more direct, use waypoints to keep these trains on the low-traffic routes. Be careful not to use all your stock-pile for the first troop goal. You should probably keep a little in reserve for the next troop goals. For this reason, I think the goal is easier if you are consistent throughout the game at making the Steel, Fruit, etc. shipments that award you track units.

Then I went into the station info for the current destination, and watched for any entries to pop up that want to send Troops. I did this virtually all the time I was running the game from that point forward. I don't care if the load is only partial (0.6). If an existing train wouldn't arrive to pick up the load in the next bit, I will buy a new train. I didn't really care how many trains end up running the route, the more the merrier. In one case I had some Troops that wanted to travel (visible in the station) but priced at $1. They refused to load with an Auto Consist "Any Express" setting. This is 1.06 so we can haul at a loss. I went and setup a Custom Consist and then manually added 8 "Any Express" cars. The Troops then boarded the train. That only happened once.

Once I completed one troop haul, I re-routed some of the Troop trains from the old run onto the new run. But I also left some of the others alone. I can't say if that's the wisest course or not. My suggestion for you is to save the game once the first Troop objective arrives. Then you can have multiple attempts from that point. Unless there is some complex hidden coding in the exe file for the barracks, there is to my knowledge no increase in Troop numbers if a barracks is supplied with Alcohol, Weapons, Ammo.

If that's too complicated. The basics are lots of trains which wont fill up with freight (Express Only), use high-priority for these trains, and, if you have enough spare track units, build dedicated, double-track routes that ensure that these troop trains almost never stop.

ETA: I never used bait and switch tactics here. Those would the challenge out of the Troop haulage for sure.

[OilCan]

I have noticed that it takes a special train and some 'train watching' to haul troops.

First, I set up a train which hauls only troops (custom consist) and nothing else to the island. I set the minimum number of loads at two. The return trip can be 'any consist' with zero or one minimum load, 8 maximum load.
I set one these trains up in every city.

Second, I set each troop train to priority status so it can roll along without stopping for other trains.

Third, I watch the troop trains.
When they have over half a load of troops, I send them on to the island and buy another identical train to sit at the city station.
The half load of troops seems to prime the pump. From then on, the trains load and go without my help.

I have 3, maybe 4 troop trains running from each city.

I hope this helps.

[Wolverine@MSU]

I had to do the same thing as RoR and Oilcan. Watch where troops want to go and add trains as needed to take them there. It take a lot of micro-managing, but will eventually get the job done if you're very attentive.

[RayofSunshine]

Some very good suggestions,although I did use the Village as a point of "origin", and stand by engines with troop "consist". As mentioned, I even used alcohol as a "bait" as it was a "demand". Didn't try the option of "express" consist, which is a different idea. The final failure of the 'play" was a consist of 8 troops, of which were were 11 at the Bora Village as the jump off to the Castle on Hideout Is. Although not assigned, troops did load at Bora Village, going to other depots, but in the finale, they just sat on their ass, when directed to The Castle. And finally when the troops from other depots were "steaming on their way", there wasn't time, and the duration time ended.
As RoR mentions, it is a lot of enjoyment of challenges, as OilCan is noted.

[RayofSunshine]

Well, I tried the suggestions and it was my fault that I did not get the requirement to the 10 haul to the Hideout. However, I missed that of getting the Points as well, and although it "error" of points indicated I did not get those number of points on completion of the requirement.

E.G. The initial notice of requirements were that to the initial haul, 10 points would be awarded. However, on completion I only received 5. Now the notice of award is that in which there is also the mention of "Hungary" for fruit hauls, and also that of "tunnels".

I don't see much advantage to that of upgrading the Duke for the Consolidation. It doesn't have the "pulling power" or the speed. There is only the advantage of that for the reliability. Hence I will remain with the Consolidation until the Zephur materializes near the end of the game. Unless some one can give me a better reason for the upgrade.

With that error being corrected, I could possibly get the GOLD.

[OilCan]

Well, I tried the suggestions and it was my fault that I did not get the requirement to the 10 haul to the Hideout. However, I missed that of getting the Points as well, and although it "error" of points indicated I did not get those number of points on completion of the requirement.

E.G. The initial notice of requirements were that to the initial haul, 10 points would be awarded. However, on completion I only received 5.

Ray of Sunshine, the initial haul was for 10 logs to camp which would give you 5 points, not 10 points. About the points - it is important to notice that hauling cotton gives more points than hauling fruit which gives more points than hauling logs. Make sure you have many trains waiting to haul cotton and give them priority - then make sure you have lots of trains waiting to haul fruit. Set the log trains on low priority. You don't want to come up short on cotton or fruit each year: you need those points.

Use both sides of the camp station. Run a line over the pond for the log hauls and later for the hauls to the larger island (you can have a second camp station for the goods going to the larger island). Let the cotton and fruit enter the camp station from the other direction of the logs.

Now the notice of award is that in which there is also the mention of "Hungary" for fruit hauls,

Yes, haul 20 loads of fruit for 10 points so the castaways will not be hungry.

...and also that of "tunnels".

If you try to build a tunnel in the mountain sections which have a special color, then a warning pops up that the tunnel will be destroyed.

I hope this helps.

[RulerofRails]

While investigating what is possible with locomotive naming and re-naming, I looked more carefully at the issue of incorrect locos showing up on this map whenever a player had custom locos installed.

The issue was that running an event to set loco availability while building the map does indeed only record that locos numeric position in the list (determined by those you have installed at the time). Disabling the old flag which was specific to a particular install and creating a new event active at each game start that sets Firefly availability to TRUE fixed the issue.

There is no longer a requirement to have only the default 1.06 locos installed. Now you can have any custom ones you want.

Edit: File removed. It's in the archives now.