Ausgleich

[karak451]

Hi, I made a scenario focusing on the railway boom in Hungary during the second half of the 19th century. Please test it, what do you miss, what annoys you, etc.

The scenario is based on a true story, except you shall win the game with your own company, not with M.Á.V. which bought all other companies in real life. Due to lack of space the scenario does not include the legendary GySEV company, an Austiran-Hungarian joint enterprise which still operates today. Also other neighbour countries' companies are excluded, so it is not a simulator of course.

The scenario includes an economic event: in May 1873 the stock exchange of Vienna crashed. The stock prices hit rock bottom, but I am not sure how it should be presented in the game. I set the event -80% on stock prices, but it makes the game too easy to win, since AI companies will bankrupt. So I set the crash to -50% on stock prices, but this way the game might be "unfunny" since AI companies remain ****** expensive. I already won the gold medal with that setup, but I need feedback how heavy it should be.

You can download the scenario here: http://www.mediafire.com/file/011w55671 ... 282%29.gmp
requires Patch 1.06

[RulerofRails]

I played the map. Looks nice. Thanks for sharing it.

Didn't catch any bugs except for spelling of "postions" in the Grain event. The rivers in the mountains near Gyulafehérvár could need a little attention.

I always have ideas, beware what you ask for.


First thought, Why did you only use small stations for the AI? This is part of the reason why the AI are very weak.

FYI, The progression in ratio of catchment size is (Small) 4:9:25 (Large). Large has 6 times the catchment area. Chance of capturing cargo for natural rehaul (once local price is depressed enough to allow further transit) is many times greater.

In fact, I made a small mod that eliminates the Small Station, replacing it with Medium and Medium with Large. This tricks the AI (ain't that easy to do?) into building larger stations. They think they are building a Medium, while it really is a Large.



FYI, just changing stock price doesn't affect AI company profitability. If those companies went bankrupt in one play it was because of the seeding. Companies with pre-built lines are sitting ducks at the full mercy of seeding chance. AIs are better pre-built, but suggested to also pre-place some key industries and resources near them to prevent them from being stranded with nothing to haul.

If you don't know how to pre-place: Backup the map first, then go and change the default start year to 3 years prior to minimum start year. Save, then reload the map. Place any industries you want, from the editors industry build list. Afterwards remember to set start year back to the original position.

In my play, the AI in general remained "junk" grade. I could buy them very cheaply thanks to the stock crash event (managed all but one), but I was just buying junk that actually caused me to go bankrupt (company), but still survived to medal before 1900 (I know it's very poor for me). I didn't think the "crash" would last for so many years. Also, I thought that maybe the AI just wasn't using it lines efficiently, well it turned out in hindsight that the majority were not profitable at all. This was probably a poor seed for them.

Many maps use booster events for the AI (for example: cash injection). I think they are needed for decent (or better) strength AI.


A historical crash event is predictable, the way the real stock market is not. A bit of wiggling out of positions and players who want to, can exploit the event big time. This takes the fun out of it in my opinion. I prefer those economic events that affect economy state, pricings, costs, etc.. This way the company will suffer, the stock price will naturally drop on the longer term horizon which is much more difficult to exploit. The player will still anticipate the crash, but he can't avoid running his company during this difficult period.

My suggestion would be to then "abstract" the immediate crash: have the newspaper appear, but instead of a direct hit to stock price, have it subtract a random (percentage against personal net worth) amount of cash from the players personal account. It could well be your selling that simulates (like real life) correctly the drop.

Don't know how experienced you are at math events. Since I'm suggesting something a bit more complex I volunteer to help with the setup (if you like the idea).



IMO, there are too many Breweries in the city recipes. I had 43 on the map around 1900. This is against 45 Grain Farms. It takes 3 Grain Farms to feed one standard Brewery. There are other uses of Grain at houses and Bakeries too. Also it's required at the ports.

Personally I don't care if there are no industries in some of the smaller cities. I'm not a local so can't declare it so, but I think in general this is realistic. If you think it's sensible to have a local Brewery in this many of the towns, I suggest turning down their production. This effect is achieved by reducing Alcohol production. Affects the Distillery too, but that's the control the game gives us. Could easily cut by 50%, maybe even more.

End of text wall

[karak451]

wow, thank you these remarks.

/// Breweries ///
The breweries are an easy issue: I was just kind of lazy, so I figured out only 4 types of cities and then copied them. I like your idea to have smaller cities without industry, the region was a rather agricultural area around 1900 anyway.

/// Stock market crash ///
I can agree with the "abstracted crash" too, I will give it a try. In a limited extent stock price reduction has an effect on AI companies. In this setup the event is with -50% but first I tried with -80% and all of the AIs bankrupted. The reason is indeed what you wrote, but also the way how AIs (and humans) gain capital: when stock prices are low, they usually don't issue stock or they issue but it doesn't help them. In general your idea with personal cash is more "organic", so I think we should alter the other event as well. ("Stock exchange of Budapest...") It was also a real event, it boosted foreign capital influx, but it was not dramatic as a crash.

I am not experienced with events at all, I could figure it out in a couple of weeks but I would appreciate it if you will really help with the setup.

/// Weak AI ///
I was afraid it would be impossible to merge with all AI companies, if AI has not only pre-made track, but also large stations. AI would be too profitable compare to human player who has nothing at the start. I experimented with different amount of AI starting cash. Sadly, AI spent all the money to expand the network, and it didn't make larger stations. Predictable bankruptcy of course... Thus, I am ready to give AI large stations, but in the editor I have no personal money anymore to takeover AIs. Propably I should set time back, make a money event, right? I never did it before, so I just hoped that I can leave the AIs as they are...

I think however, that only the westernmost AI (k.k.Staatsbahnen) should be boosted with large stations, as O.M.Á.V (the next one to the east) and M.Á.V. (near Budapest) were in almost all of my tests profitable and very expensive to buy around 1910. Moreover, one of them is linked to k.k.Staatsbahen, and if k.k.Staatsbahnen hauls a lots of freight, it would boost the linked AI as well. That's why when I am playing, I try to avoid linking to other networks, until I bought them. That was my strategy in West Africa as well, otherwise from my economic success story would benefit others too, making the merger more heavier.

/// dumb terrain ///
I am on it


Thanks for the suggestions. First I will fix the terrain & seedings & AI, I will upload the map here, so you can fix the stock market events

[RulerofRails]

Await a revision. Just a couple notes in the meantime.

The way to get control of companies in the editor is to manipulate their company cash with "Set Cash" from the specific company view. You will need to unpause for a tiny bit for stock price to adjust.

For example. Take the smallest company, D. D. V.. Set the cash to -11M (add - in front, 0 on end, easy to remember for reset). Unpause for a millisecond and price will drop to $0. Now you can buy control. If you reset the cash before you sell out, another tiny unpause and your man will be very rich. For even more riches, can even do opposite and add extra cash to get even richer (doesn't matter how much cash he is left with as this is reset at each scenario start). I prefer to work on the low side (set cash down instead of up, to avoid some of the inflation mechanic of price rising after significant volume buys).

Yes, it's a shame that the AI don't know how to upgrade stations. They never do.

I would recommend at least doing Medium Stations for all AI. You could try raising their track price and lowering industry costs (apply to AI companies), to make them less likely to expand.


Have you tried this "fix" for 1.06?
Info
http://hawkdawg.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=42691#p42691

Fixed exe
http://hawkdawg.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=44854#p44854

If you wanted to tweak the map to use it (boosts for AI need to be a little stronger), this eliminates excess low value rehauls which is what can cause AI profitability to runaway in good conditions. So, they will remain more sensible in the long term. The main plus side is that the cargo economy behaves more rationally. I much prefer to play with the fixed version, but I will always try to play with the intended setup (didn't use it on my test run).


On the topic of the AI, what do you think the ones who are allowed to *start companies add to the game?

*(actually multiple companies, since editor option "Disable Starting Multiple Companies" is in not selected, this could be a problem if you make them rich when doing mergers as they could get majority position, but at the moment they are much more likely to go bankrupt).

Already I feel that the area is crowded. Remember that the Poptop maps have high cargo density. It's only in these conditions that the AI can "sometimes" get a decent start with just a two city connection. For the human player we choose low density. This is the major reason why the AI need boosts on many maps (apart from their general foolishness of course).

[karak451]

thanks for the tip, I would have never figure it out how to get rich in the editor. This way I could upgrade the stations & tracks.

behold the no.3 version:
http://www.mediafire.com/file/5n6vi0rjo ... 283%29.gmp

fixed:
- map in some areas
- less cities with industry
- AI have large stations (all) + k.k.Staatsbahnen got some industrial output to haul
- track prices +30% for AI

remarks:
AIs are now profitable companies, it is useful to start to buy them as long as they have not so many stocks outstanding. The first company I bought for 3M, the last one for 100M. The economic landscape is now more pleasant, it was really a good idea to get rid off the breweries.

Crowded map:
I set some cities to no industry, the map is now somehow better, but maybe I should do something more firm against density. One thing is sure: after merging with some medium AI I had no more financial shortages as AI tends to buy all the industry. Approximately after 1890 I had 2-3M profit yearly. In 1904 as electric trains are introduced, I could easily upgrade my whole network to electric in my last test. It happens in other scenarios as well, but I have a feeling that the seeding in this scenario is too friendly. What you think?

"On the topic of the AI, what do you think the ones who are allowed to *start companies add to the game? " -- I could not find where I can set this thing. I found something, I checked it, now players can no longer start multiple companies, yet 2 other companies appeared in the first years. Still they did'nt run out of control, I don't mind them. I never experienced more or less than this two extra AIs, so probably the settings makes it happen.

[Gumboots]

If you want tips on how to set up events for a really good depression, take a look at Age of Steam IV - Blue Streak.

That one includes the 1929 Great Depression and it's killer.

Found on this page: http://hawkdawg.com/rrt/rrt3/map_arch/r ... merica.htm

[RulerofRails]

Yeah, wsherrick threw the book at it for the Blue Streak depression. But, that's mid-/late game, so I would soften a little for this. Also according to wiki, the 1873 "great depression" only lasted about 2 years in Europe.

The most powerful tool in RT3 is to lower cargo prices. This effects the whole economy, much more than just rail profits. Industries are less profitable, therefore they produce less. If prices are low enough that they are unprofitable, then they will produce almost nothing. Also, lower prices means weaker price gradients which means that in turn there's less demand at source and overland travel is slower.

Friendly Seeding?
Well, I think at the start, it's even more lean than I would suggest. With this game, most players who don't find a sweet spot for rail will build some industry at the start of the game. This is the major drawback to having little activity at game start. I'm obstinate and will often try to do a rail start anyway, even if it's not the better option.

However, as the game progresses a lot of industries are filling in. I would suggest reducing the settings for growth as time progresses. Could even just halve the first 2 periods.


I coded up some events for the stock market crash. Added a few details in the process, just chop and change as you like. Feel free to ask questions because these are one of the strengths of the game, that although a bit clumsy to setup and having more than a few "got-yuhs", allow a huge range of possibilities. Many maps barely scratch the surface.

First thing I will say is that experimentation is fairly quick when you use lay track for the trigger frequency. This can make testing complex stuff feasible, without wasting hours.

For this solution I'm using math, that means variables. The main thing to realize is that variables store info and therefore when we do math they store the RESULT. This means a little shuffling where we copy values from one variable to another whenever we want to preserve a value for later use. When you see "set variable #2 to variable #1", that's what's happening.

Step #1
New Event to define variables at game start (for the example, Game Variable 1) that takes account for game difficulty

Set Game Variable 1 to [Game Difficulty Level]
Game Variable 1 +2

Set Game Variable 2 to [Game Variable 1]
Game Variable 2 *10


This gives us values of GV1
(0) Easy 2
(1) Medium 3
(2) Hard 4
(3) Expert 5

For GV2
Easy 20
Medium 30
Hard 40
Expert 50


Step #2
Update crash event, per tiny bit of wiki research I found that the crisis lasted 2 years. I used this as a rough guide when setting the length of the effects, but varied them for interest as well.

Effects
Prime rate +GV1
Cargo Prices -GV2
Set Economic state to 0 (depression)
Industry building costs -GV2
Station building costs -GV2
(last two are offset by an event I added further down, on expert, from max of +25% to discount of -25%)


Step#3
Personal cash losses:
Set Game Variable 3 to [Player Net worth]
Set Game Variable 4 to [Random 1 to 100]
Game Variable 4 / 5
Game Variable 2 - [Game Variable 4]
Game Variable 3 * [Game Variable 2]
Game Variable 3 / 150
Player Cash - [Game Variable 3]

*In simple terms this should dictate a range of between 17-33% (depending on random) loss for expert level. On easy level you would see a possibility of up to 13% loss. Notice how I divided by the large number at the end? The idea is that there's less rounding throughout the steps this way. Looks more complicated, but it's better.

Step #4
This was more a liberty, because the crash followed a real estate bubble, I added an event that will increase prices for 5 years early in the game.
Yearly increase in industry and station costs from 1869-1873 (+GV1).


I also did some minor corrections to the AI track event (needed a condition) and I took a liberty and raised Grain production at the time of the price drop. First reason is to maintain somewhat similar output, second reason is that said price drop is supposed to come about because there's too much Grain on the market, and the exports are paying less, really in the game we are presenting domestic supply far more than exports (at current seeding level anyway) so it made sense to me that there would be more Grain for local consumption as less was being exported (I know this is a little abstracted). Maybe I was rash here and should have waited to see how the map plays without so many Breweries. If you don't like anything, just scrap it.

PS. You found the right switch for Multiple Companies. The reason the AI are starting companies at all is because the AI players are not set to be chairmen of the companies. They are all looking to start one. If you want to set them into the companies, when in the editor hold Ctrl while clicking on their portrait. You can then use the same trick to give them cash, so they can takeover a company. If you meant it this way, they are working fine.

[karak451]

I palyed Blue Streak, but we don't need such a great depression here.
What RuleroRails made is perfect (this would take for me about a year )
So thank you RuleroRails for your effort, especially that you googled the event. You figured out my intention.

for the grain-issue your solution is good again, I was in this respect lazy. I simply tried to fill the plains with grain farms and let their number increase by general economic growth, but due to my dense city seeding there is not enough room for them. I didn't notice the possibility in editor of production increase. That is fair enough. Historically the story of this time period is about an industrial prosperity based on grain production. I mean grain kickstarted the economy and the expansion of the railway network brought prosperity to all other sectors too. Although after the influx of U.S. grain in Europe there was a price drop, but this business remained a good one. For me it is not that interesting, as I don't like scenarios where you shall haul X cargos in X time. I like when I shall buy my rivals, so if there is grain on the map, it meets my intention. Important is that in the timeframe there was a similar prosperity as of the American Midwest in the same period, there were lot to haul from everything, urbanization was on the rise, and tycoons emerged.

I made the seeding less generous by reducing the growth of the first two decade.

Unless anyone would like to have changes, I will consider this scenario in attachment as finished.

Thank you guys your contributions!

[Gumboots]

Looks interesting, and is one of my favourite timeframes and areas. I might even get inspired to finish the kkStB locomotives I have roughed out.

Anyway, there are a couple of minor typos in the briefing. I haven't had a chance to check the rest of the text yet, but will take another look in a few hours, when I have more time.

[RayofSunshine]

Well, I really didn't get a chance to even attempt a test play. With all the comments of RofR, I did not see any further comments I could make to enhance the scenario creation. So I thank you for the creation, and look forward for others in the future.

[RulerofRails]

Please try it. We all have different styles of play. You might see things I didn't.

[Gumboots]

I'll have to give it a go. Still haven't got around to it. My brain gets a bit bipolar about RT3. When I'm into it, I'm right into it. When I get burned out on it, I can't stand looking at any maps or any models for a while. Then, after a suitably long break, I start getting enthused again and it's all on.

[RayofSunshine]

The programming was going along until 1878, after I made the last requirement of connection of the cities. Lower right hand corner (Baserati) Every thing got "shut down, except the "cursor". I don't know if this is my computer, or just some thing which has to be corrected.

[low_grade]

Gave this a try today, gold on Expert in 1904. Plenty of time, and I think the strategy is all down to the tycooning in the first few years. You have to start a company, so do so, then sell your stocks. Then buy into the stocks you know are about to go up. Spread out your purchases, and keep buying throughout the first year as you can. Then in December, dump it all. Come January, buy up your own stock. I had 15/20 shares and over $600k PNW at this point. Now, to get profitable. Textiles was the way to go, but beware of bad seeds. One upstream of Nagykanizsa and buy the two sheep farms, another up from Deva and buy three farms. That was enough to get me started on acquisitions. The first two AI companies (not the pre-built), and then connections. Build from Deva down to Arad, Arad-Nagylak was the first AI, so my first takeover. Once the ball got rolling, it was just a matter of time. I built a steel mill in Deva, after the two that spawned there both shuttered in the depression of 73-75. Only a couple more industries, as prices got prohibitive, focus on acquisition, and a wee bit of expansion. Once all takeovers complete, clean up the company, shed debt, modernize the fleet with P8's, double track a bit in a recession, and finally make the connections.

Not much track laying, except to clean up AI stupidity. Each AI will start a company, so be ready for more acquisitions than you expected... A good tycooning challenge here, for sure!

[Gumboots]

Taking a look at this.

1/ If you are going to have an automatic lose event firing monthly, it would be a really good idea to tell people in the briefing, and explain the triggers.

2/ There is no point in allowing a start year of up until 1914, because that lose event will kill the game in 1914 anyway. If anyone does start in 1914 they will get a forced lose in a few months. It would make more sense to set 1867 as the only start year.

3/ Win events are checked from the top of the list, down. This means it is always best to put Gold first, then Silver, then Bronze, then Lose. That way if someone gets Gold at the last minute, the Bronze event won't fire first and end the game on a Bronze.

4/ The separator events are bugged. Easiest ways to do those are:
a/ use them for a valid event you need anyway, and just name them as separators, or
b/ set them as once only at scenario start, with a harmless effect such as Player Cash +$0.
But really, there are so few events in this map that separators aren't necessary.
Separators are useful when you are trying to keep track of 100 events, but not when you only have a dozen or so.
You could just remove those three events.

5/ The pre-laid track was obviously done by a human (orientation doesn't match AI limits) but a lot of it is as rough as if it had been laid by an AI. Examples are about half the kkStB track, and about half the OMAV track. Suggest re-laying it to a better standard.

6/ This one is a personal thing, but ever since I did a bit of research on the area for possible Orient Express maps I'm rather over people wanting to encourage rail through the Iron Gate. I'd prefer to have it impassable, like it is IRL.

[low_grade]

I'm obstinate and will often try to do a rail start anyway, even if it's not the better option.

I knew it! Still have no idea how to start Athabasca 1905 with rail...

[RayofSunshine]

Being busy with other projects, I haven't been abreast of all the changes with the site. Now, I need a little help as to get this scenario downloaded. but don't see any "indicator" to "click", either from the list of "user created maps" on the thread itself. Suggestions appreciated.

[low_grade]

The attachment in the above post works, and is the same map that I played back in 2018. Not sure why this never made it to the map lists...

[Gumboots]

Probably because nobody in charge was notified that it was finished.
I still haven't played it through, but I can add it to the archives if you think it's good enough.

[low_grade]

The author declared it finished, and as best I recall it was entirely playable, so I'd say yes, add it to the archives.