Age Of Steam IV-Blue Streak For Your Comment and Review

[Gumboots]

Yes, haul at a loss is done by custom consist. I very rarely use it. Like you, I prefer other methods of getting goals.

And it is a great map. The only catch with is that I think he went overboard with the locomotive upgrades. Everything is so jacked up that the distinctions between them tend to get lost.

[RulerofRails]

I played this map to death testing it when Hans/Shamough was working up his version. He fixed a couple bugs, plus did some changes that on the overall make it play better IMO. If you wondered why the thread is so long, a fair portion is work on/testing for that version.

Anyway, don't want to give spoilers, but, yeah, also agree that the warehouses are so overpowered they honestly feel like cheating.

[Gumboots]

There's an easy way around that: boost the goals so that you need the overpowered warehouses to get there. And not just basic stuff like doubling required PNW or whatever. With the USRA and Great Depression events on this map, there is scope for something more imaginative. But a simple one would be increasing warehouse cost a bit, just so you don't tend to throw them around like fleas on a dog.

[RulerofRails]

Well, Shamough's version certainly added a bit more challenge, probably enough for most to enjoy.

The thing with warehouse pricing is that the build cost is tied in with the overhead formula, so you would probably want to have a specific warehouse.bca file just for this scenario. When I discovered this I then understood why the price is what it is. Raising the price will hurt the barely profitable 1:1 conversion seen in probably the majority of uses (this map being one of the extreme exceptions).

If you meant to use an event to raise Industry build/buy cost, warehouses remain relatively cheap compared to other industries so the ROI from warehouses will always be a big step ahead of regular industries.

[Gumboots]

Ah yes, forgot about those points. You would need a specific .bca to do the job properly. Which is something that a lot of players wouldn't be keen on, even though it's not a big deal for hard core players.

[Awesome_Aliza]

Greetings everyone! My name is Aliza(I want to change my name to Awesome_Aliza but the profile settings wont let me do so :P) and I am a new modder to the scene.

For my first contribution I would like to show a few edits I made to William (wsherrick) Sherrick's map Blue Streak. I removed the freight competition events and the associated access fees(500k a year, ouch) in order to make the freight hauling experience overall more enjoyable. I also made each of the cities have 500k access costs instead, at least for now. More work will be done after testing through the scenario a few times. Feel free to give me some feedback on this first edit/map of mine(all credits for the original map to wsherrick though)! Thanks to all for reading!


http://www.mediafire.com/file/qfmyqxn34 ... t.gmp/file

[Hawk]

Moved to the topic already started about this map.

[Gumboots]

Greetings everyone! My name is Aliza(I want to change my name to Awesome_Aliza but the profile settings wont let me do so :P) and I am a new modder to the scene.

Howdy. Hawk might let you change it if you convince him you're awesome (forum admins prefer to avoid people changing names).

For my first contribution I would like to show a few edits I made to William (wsherrick) Sherrick's map Blue Streak. I removed the freight competition events and the associated access fees(500k a year, ouch) in order to make the freight hauling experience overall more enjoyable.

I don't remember it having $500k/year access fees, but it's been a long time since I played this one. Are they the penalty for missing the early freight haulage targets? If you're having trouble with those, you can ace them easily if you run your trains on maintenance spurs instead of inline facilities. This will speed up the station-to-station trip times, which is what the goals are based on.

I'll take a look at your map over the weekend. At the moment I'm going nuts making one of my own.

[RulerofRails]

Hi, and welcome,
Yes, this map was intended that you use spur service. The concept was taken further with this edit by Shamough. Quite a few bugs were fixed in that version as well. But the main characteristic of this map is the insane warehouses, as you will know if you read the thread. If you didn't read through the thread, I don't blame you, it became a bit of a mess because of all the back and forth in sorting that version. Maybe it's a worse-case scenario though, or should I not jinx it? Try some engine threads if you want to get really lost.

[Awesome_Aliza]

Hi, and welcome,
Yes, this map was intended that you use spur service. The concept was taken further with this edit by Shamough. Quite a few bugs were fixed in that version as well. But the main characteristic of this map is the insane warehouses, as you will know if you read the thread. If you didn't read through the thread, I don't blame you, it became a bit of a mess because of all the back and forth in sorting that version. Maybe it's a worse-case scenario though, or should I not jinx it? Try some engine threads if you want to get really lost.

I did try to use spur services along with upgrading to Mastadons ASAP, but could never hit the target goals for freight. I guess more bond fueled early expansion might be required? I tend to shy away from that as much these days.

[Gumboots]

I can't remember which loco I was using in the early stages, but I don't think the Mastodon is all that fast. To turn in a 40 mph average speed for the trip, you need something that will wind out to 70 mph or so with a freight consist.

[RulerofRails]

Those targets are just for that year. What you do beforehand doesn't matter. With good design (use double track, note this is bad for returns so consider industry start) and by starting with longer runs (I liked the north of the map) you can make it with an untampered system. From memory I think I was using the Eight Wheeler for the first "race".

However, if you need to you could shorten trains for that year (start some months prior in "preparation"). If a train faces a delay due to traffic conflict or break down, etc., just stop it so that it wont arrive while the "race is on". Come to think of it, those things are in the spirit of the challenge I am sure.

---

Bond-fueled: That comes down to mentally recognizing the approximate return on investment you are getting for your money. Then whether or not this is higher than the interest rate on the bonds. The potential is there, if you see it, USE IT!

Buying/building industries is like cruise control. Profits are much more stable, so it's easier to be sure that you can invest bond money with a higher return than the interest you fork out.

With the warehouses this map is insane. Those will give insane returns, in some cases 100%+ per year of purchase price. As for example in the post I linked I managed a profit of $100M in the 5th year. From memory I think a good first year, maxing bonds, in an improving economy, by just building warehouses one can see about $3M profit.

Rail returns are more complex. The tricky part with rails is to find a CONSISTENT return. Short term is easy. Generally people master the industries first. There is sense in that because you learn the ins-and-outs of the way geography affects the price heat map and hence the flow of cargoes.

To get somewhat consistent returns and production with rails you need to plan your connections (and routing patterns) carefully to give reliable deliveries of resources. They will tend to get dragged anywhere if you connect everything and slap some trains down. The main thing is to recognize the traps such as -- secondary industries far away, river/port influence, new industries that spawn and disrupt current flows -- the sorts of things that will stall flow or even subvert cargo from going on the path you wish.

Compare to the industry route
The opportunity to build an industry means there is a gap between the resource and the industry that consumes it. There are always loses in the chain if you use rail connection. For example cargo rot, etc.. Also, production of the resources themselves is based on price at source, so needless to say on the overall by building industries nearer the source we can improve the efficiency of the entire economy.

In the big picture developing the economy does take time, so when going for quick medals, clever rails can be quicker, even by some margin. That will depend a lot on the map tasks, density, distance of cities, expense of the engines/rails etc.. In lean circumstances, rail returns are dropping so industries will always win. For the long haul, such as to end at a large CBV, industries will most likely be better. Did I also mention that it's a lot easier to calculate the returns from industries? So cruise to success. Unless you want challenge. . .

[Awesome_Aliza]

I ended up playing the map again with an industry start plus starting in council bluffs and I was able to breeze past all my freight targets, and I got the message eventually that I was on my way to an instant gold, though idk if I actually have it? Who knows but I figured out proper spur service. The hard part now is getting the 200 haulage goods to the cities. I don't think any of the warehouses produce cattle lmao. Cow cloning technology hadn't been invented yet

[Gumboots]

Them cows is a nuisance. Always misbehaving.

And one era of the PopTop stock cars has sheep inside it, so the cows must have tricked them into taking their place.

[low_grade]

Dag nabbit! I'm over halfway through, and thought I was doing quite well, except then I realized there was no possible way I was going make all those crazy hauls... I might still make $1B CBV for instant gold, though, so I may keep playing.

I wanted to go only rail, and started well, using spurs, and making 43mph average so far, and with recent boosts, 60mph currently, not that it matters any more, since I've already gotten free access to all 4 city-territories, Memphis-Chicago-Dallas-KC in that order. Eventually I relented with industry, though I had already dropped hotels everywhere, and started with a Steel Mill and T&D in Cairo, and some more stuff here and there, trying to see how I could build production of everything I needed to haul, and I started trying to get some of the "feed" goals to warehouses going, like Corn to Dallas so that it produces Livestock, but wow was it going slow, and I realize that I'm literally being asked to cross the map repeatedly, and in order to route that while using all side-spurs, ugh, what a nightmare. I have 50+ stops for some of my long runners, counting maintenance and service!

Now I see that it was intended that I should actually build the warehouses and ports that show up in my build list that I thought were accidents... Why would I be allowed to build something that would break the game in terms of ROI? Hrm... Kinda disappointed with Age of Steam IV... It should be winnable without being able to build the ports/warehouses. Maybe I could try again, still without building them, and switch my service from spurs to in-route after passing the last speed test... And really focus more on maximizing profits, not holding back on industry investment otherwise.

Also, I'm using all Eight-Wheelers, sooo cheap to run, and with the reliability boost really no complaints, even 20 years old. Though oddly I've felt compelled to run them a bit different that I'm used to, normally I wouldn't use them much in the 1900s, though, but usually I run all locos 7+cab or 8 no minimum on A-B-C-D-C-B type routes. On this game, probably with speed in mind, I ran 2 min 4 max +cab on almost all routes.

Most of the map has been 0 grade, with a few stretches of 1's, and a couple 2's, so again, Eight-Wheeler is perfect, but even up the grade trying to get directly from KC to Dallas, I never had to go over a 3, nice map for that kind of track laying.

[Gumboots]

The hauls should be easy enough. I've clocked them without much trouble, just running any loco I feel like running. With the ludicrous upgrades in this scenario, even the Camelback is a rocket. There's no need to restrict yourself to short consists.

I don't understand how you can have 50+ stops on your long haul trains. Even if you are hauling direct from Chicago to Dallas (which would be the longest trip on the map) you shouldn't need more than 3 inline maintenance/water stops on the way. So assuming full spur service at each end you'd have 4+2+2+2+4+2+2+2 = 20 stops maximum.

As you figured out, on this map you really only need spurs to clock the early speed goals. Using inline facilities for long haul trains is totally fine. I often set them up so they bypass towns (use waypoints if necessary) on a separate piece of track, so short haul all-stations train still use spurs off stations, but the long haul trains use inline sheds and towers on bypass track. This is the best way to minimise congestion, IMO.

The warehouses are really the go on this one. They don't "break" the game's ROI. The scenario is coded to make them work well. And, when the Great Depression hits, you will be amazed at how fast your company burns through cash.

[low_grade]

Well let's just say that I hadn't yet built track to shortcut the KC-Dallas route and all those trains were going through Chicago, lol! But I likely overschedule stops, too, in general.

[Gumboots]

Well if you're going to insist on going from Dallas to Fort Worth via Chattanooga, that's your problem.

[RulerofRails]

I did a low industry run of this:
http://hawkdawg.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=38669#p38669

But of course that wasn't a first attempt.

wsherrick seems to suggest that he intends the player to build warehouses:
http://hawkdawg.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=5296#p5296
http://hawkdawg.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=8368#p8368

And yes, absolutely those "break" the game in terms of ROI. http://hawkdawg.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=38621#p38621

He was experimenting, so it's forgivable. But it's a tricky idea to have them as "buildable" supply/demand. The ratios could be leaned up a lot while still being profitable, but the player is ending up with lots of control. And "building" supply is most often good for the bottom line even if there were no insane profits directly attached. It's kinda fun as an exercise in excess, but this idea is eroding the strategic possibility and replayability.

[low_grade]

I'm tempted to replay this with my only goal to be to cover the entire map with warehouses... The production chains starting with the bauxite-rubber supply, plus toss in a few distilleries or whathaveyou at the end, just absurd profit giveaways. I'm only 12 years into a play where I went ahead with warehouses, and I don't think I can finish, like the rare movie where you can't be bothered to see how it ends when you're already 40 minutes in. Also given 1.06's haul-at-a-loss, and haulage counts are just out and in, not out-in and in-out, way too easy. Interesting concept, but don't give me such easy exploits.